re: Omer Asik

quote:

---

Cunningham is a lot better than I thought he was going to be

---

Brings an energy off the bench that wasn't there before. He does all the dirty work and scrappy stuff that no one was doing. Always seems to come up with the loose ball. that mid range jumper is a bonus. Had no idea that he could do that although I'm sure he will start to come back to earth as the season moves on.

quote:

---

It's below average with Asik.

---

I just don't think I agree with this. It's still 18. That number is competing against rotations that have Dirk and Speights playing center. You have to control for that. I'd like to see how the offensive efficiency with Asik compares to the rest of the league if you only count the minutes where they have a center in. A legit center, not a 4 playing out of position.

this started as a shitty thread and has really gotten informative

some good posters here

quote:

---

The 4 man lineup of Asik, Davis, Holiday, and Evans has played more minutes than any other 4 man group on the Pelicans.

ORating 102
DRating 103

Meanwhile, Anderson, Davis, Holiday, Evans in 160 less minutes

ORating 117
DRating 105

I like Asik. He's very, very good at what he does. But he is bad at offense. That's not a killer for a team. It worked in Houston. They're still good enough in New Orleans. But they can be better with better coaching.

---

Yes, but the core of Asik, Davis, Holiday, and Evans logs a giant portion of their minutes in the first 8 or so minutes of the game when the other team is guaranteed to have their starters in. The Ryno lineup does tend to play the end of the game vs starters but so does Asik sometimes. And a teams finishing lineup is typically less defensive-centric as their starters anyway.

In other words, that first 4 man lineup probably plays more minutes against the other team's starting center. The value of plus minus is usually pretty good in that it shows how people are playing vs their counterpart on the other team. Backups having a higher +- than starters means that the bench is relatively stronger than the starters compared to their counterparts across the league. It does not mean they are better than the starters.

But yes, 117 to 102 is a huge difference. I certainly won't argue team is way better with Ryno offensively. Just think that margin is very misleading.

I think Jordan and Chandler are both good offensive big men. Dunks count for points in addition to making highlight reels. Limited does not mean not good. Centers don't need to create their own stuff.

Asik is a legitimate center, and people saw in the previous two years in Houston. The difference this year is he is being coached by a moron that can't scheme his way out of a wet paper bag.

People love to laud Monty for his great development of AD, but every other player has either regressed or remained the same under him. Could it be that perhaps AD just developed by getting experience?

Monty and his staff are the issue on this team, and until he's gone, this team will tread water at best around 0.500 and miss the playoffs.

The Pelicans have a great amount of talent, but when you see them running the same basic scheme no matter what combination of players are on the floor, you'll have issues.

It is what hurts this team offensively at times, and defensively most of the time.

All fair points. I will say that Monty is not known for his forward thinking substitution patterns. He plays starters with starters and bench guys with bench guys. It kills me- I wish he would do what you suggest in terms of blending starters v opponent bench players. So, in a roundabout way, I'm not sure how much the Anderson 4 man lineup I listed truly feasts on bench guys.

That said, I agree that it is a flawed way to look at it. It's the best way I know, but it is, ultimately, an imperfect way of looking at it.

I agree on Chandler and Jordan- they are great weapons even though they can't create any offense on their own. All they need to do is dive hard, catch, and finish. Or at least offer that threat.

Asik is in the same mold, but doesn't have a reliable catch and finish skill set so teams aren't as worried about that threat with him like they are when Davis rolls to the rim. He's a minus offensive player (similar to how Anderson is a minus defensive player) but I don't care. He's proven himself over the years to be one of the best defensive bigs in the league. That is valuable, regardless of his FG% or 1 TO/G

I still do agree that offense produces good results overall. I certainly agree the defense sucks and it is what kills the team on a nightly basis, not the offense.

102 points per 100 possessions isn't breaking any records, but it's not awful by any stretch. I, personally, feel they could do some things differently to make the offense more effective with Asik on the court. But, yes, it is nitpicking to a certain degree. A better offense for Asik's 27 MPG doesn't fix the bad defense they play for 48 MPG on most nights.

Fantastic

ORating 109
DRating 97

Gordon has solid Net Ratings with every core guy (no lower than +4 with Davis and topping out at +11 with Asik) except Anderson (-3.5). Last year's Finishing 5 is breaking even this year. 120 and 120.

Gordon only has 370 minutes. But the numbers indicate the team misses him in a big way.

The original starting 5:

ORating 110
DRating 98

The current starting 5

ORating 101
Drating 111

Obviously a small sample, but Gordon was helping the team despite a career low FG%. It's not all about points.

quote:

---

I agree on Chandler and Jordan- they are great weapons even though they can't create any offense on their own. All they need to do is dive hard, catch, and finish. Or at least offer that threat.

Asik is in the same mold, but doesn't have a reliable catch and finish skill set so teams aren't as worried about that threat with him. He's proven himself over the years to be one of the best defensive bigs in the league. That is valuable, regardless of his FG% or 1 TO/G

---

what is all that worth to you?
12-14 million a year?
To me he's not 12 million. he's 9 million at best. If he had hands and could get his feet more than 6 inches off the court, i'd pay him 12 million.

I agree he's a great defensive center, but he's a putrid offensive player, and i just don't want to pay a player with that skill set 12-14 million a year.

I'm very happy with his play at the 8 million cap hit he's at right now. He fits well with the team and is doing well for what he's paid for. But if he's making 12+million a year, then he better start bringing something other than butter fingers to the offensive side of the ball. Can you name a legit starting center in the NBA worst than Asik on offense? Does Javale McGee start?

the new much higher cap isnt' supposed to start until after next year i thought, 2017 season.

quote:

---

the new much higher cap isnt' supposed to start until after next year i thought, 2017 season.

---

2016 is when the new deal starts pumping in money. They may or may not put extra money in the cap this offseason. Even if they don't it's still going to effect contracts this offseason because if he signs a 4 year deal then 3 of those years will be under the TV cap.