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3
Posted on 12/29/15 at 12:02 am to quail man
Dell sent him to Frick up Philly's tank and start ours
Its obvious
Its obvious
Posted on 12/29/15 at 9:39 am to LosLobos111
Yeah but we have tyreke and cole
Posted on 12/29/15 at 10:10 am to quail man
I would take Ish as our starter over Reke in a heartbeat. He was becoming one of my favorite Pelicans.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 10:23 am to 911Moto
Ish may have had a good fit here, but he's a minimum guy that's bounced around the league. You can get someone of equal talent with another minimum contract, so when someone offers you 2 likely early 2nds for a minimum contract guy you take the deal before they change their minds and then ask them if there's anyone else on your roster they like.
This post was edited on 12/29/15 at 10:25 am
Posted on 12/29/15 at 10:28 am to TigerinATL
Yeah pretty much. And despite my early protests, I grew to really like Ish. He's a good backup and has a good skillset. He fit well on this team.
But 2 early seconds for a guy that will expire and might get a better deal from someone else in the offseason? Got to take that.
There's no doubt in my mind that those picks will be used to facilitate another deal closer to the deadline. Either packaged with a bum like Asik or as part of a large deal to get an upgrade from EG/Ryno/Tyreke etc.
But 2 early seconds for a guy that will expire and might get a better deal from someone else in the offseason? Got to take that.
There's no doubt in my mind that those picks will be used to facilitate another deal closer to the deadline. Either packaged with a bum like Asik or as part of a large deal to get an upgrade from EG/Ryno/Tyreke etc.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 10:38 am to TigerinATL
quote:
You can get someone of equal talent with another minimum contract
Make sure you point that guy out to us when he comes along
Only took Dell 10 years to hit on a minimum guy who actually could contribute positive minutes
Posted on 12/29/15 at 10:40 am to GynoSandberg
Ish definitely turned out to be better than most minimum guys you can find, that's for sure.
Still the right call on the deal though.
Still the right call on the deal though.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 11:11 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
Make sure you point that guy out to us when he comes along
Brian Roberts
Career PER 13.2
Career Per 36 Pts/Ast/TO 14.3/5.1/1.9
Career WS per 48 .067
Career VORP -0.8
Ish Smith
Career PER 12.0
Career Per 36 Pts/Ast/TO 11.4/7.1/2.7
Career WS per 48 .019
Career VORP -1.3
I know Ish is your guy, but if you think he's more than just a different flavor for 4th/5th guard, well I think you're wrong. So let's not call him a minimum guy, because that is a pretty broad term that lumps in the 10 dayers with the end of rotation players. Let's call him a 4th guard. Would you take 2 early 2nds for Cole? I would.
This post was edited on 12/29/15 at 11:13 am
Posted on 12/29/15 at 2:27 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Ish may have had a good fit here, but he's a minimum guy that's bounced around the league. You can get someone of equal talent with another minimum contract,
I disagree about getting someone similar on a minimum contract. You are not getting a player as fast as Smith, and they aren't taking the minimum in the new cap world.
quote:
so when someone offers you 2 likely early 2nds for a minimum contract guy you take the deal before they change their minds and then ask them if there's anyone else on your roster they like.
Did we ever learn the real trade? What picks were they and what restrictions are attached to them?
Posted on 12/29/15 at 2:48 pm to Jester
quote:
they aren't taking the minimum in the new cap world.
I have seen reports that teams are thinking of not meeting the salary floor, but surely that's just a handful of bad teams, no? If Ryno is getting anywhere from $15-$20, cap space is going to dry up pretty quickly and filling out the roster will rely on the usual exceptions.
quote:
Did we ever learn the real trade? What picks were they and what restrictions are attached to them?
I haven't seen anything about restrictions, just that it's the Denver 2016 pick and the 76ers 2017 pick. Usually fake picks are for when one side needs to send something, they already sent one pick, no reason to include a 2nd, fake pick.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 4:48 pm to TigerinATL
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it Ish Smith was just a typical minimum piece I'd think that this thread would have a lot less than 130 posts. I'm not against the trade or anything, but I hope we put these draft picks to good use, either to facilitate a trade or to actually draft a couple decent players. If we whiff on the draft picks, then it was a terrible trade.
"A bird in the hand is worth more than 2 in the bush."
"A bird in the hand is worth more than 2 in the bush."
Posted on 12/29/15 at 4:50 pm to BadTyreke
quote:
If we whiff on the draft picks, then it was a terrible trade.
That really isn't how it works.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 4:52 pm to Fun Bunch
Yeah, that's exactly how it works if that's how we use the draft picks. Trading a solid rotation player 8th-12th man for 2 failed draft picks that the organization wastes time and resources on would be a failure.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 4:54 pm to BadTyreke
2 more Pat Youngs and Russ Smiths(cut by Memphis yesterday btw).
Posted on 12/29/15 at 4:59 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Brian Roberts
Career PER 13.2
Career Per 36 Pts/Ast/TO 14.3/5.1/1.9
Career WS per 48 .067
Career VORP -0.8
Ish Smith
Career PER 12.0
Career Per 36 Pts/Ast/TO 11.4/7.1/2.7
Career WS per 48 .019
Career VORP -1.3
im looking at what those guys did when given starter minutes. Dont think it's fair to really judge their careers' as a whole
Here what Im thinking
Team played better when Ish was getting minutes. If you arent going anywhere (we obviously arent), Holiday was already on restricted minutes plus looked good off the bench and playing off the ball, Cole sucks... shite, just keep running Ish out there as a starter playing 30+ a night averaging 16/8/4. Maybe his value rises, you can attach him later in the season with some of these other guys, who knows. all the while, your team is actually playing better ball wit the guy on the floor
Posted on 12/29/15 at 5:05 pm to GynoSandberg
We still started 1-11 with ish starting. Some of you love to forget he is a limited player who is good for 20mpg,not a starter
Posted on 12/29/15 at 5:06 pm to BadTyreke
quote:
Yeah, that's exactly how it works if that's how we use the draft picks.
No it isn't.
You judge the TRADE on the value given. Two high 2nd round picks is high value.
You judge the DRAFT PICK on the player picked or what it is traded for.
Those are two separate things.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 5:07 pm to BadTyreke
quote:
"A bird in the hand is worth more than 2 in the bush."
If we could have made it happen with Cole I'd have gone that direction, because Ish did look like a better long term fit. But you never let the little pieces get in the way of moves for your bigger pieces. Do you really think Demps' plan is to stockpile picks?
Gordon for an expiring + 1st
Gordon for Batum
Dumping Asik
What if I told you that the difference between making these potential deals happen or not happen was Ish Smith? Would you not do the trades? Again, this is Dealin Dell, not Draftin Dell, he cashed Ish in for trade parts. I'd be surprised if we kept both picks.
This post was edited on 12/29/15 at 5:20 pm
Posted on 12/29/15 at 5:18 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
Dont think it's fair to really judge their careers' as a whole
I'd agree and Roberts getting about twice as many starts skews the numbers a bit, but my basic point was I don't think they are in different talent tiers, just different flavors of the same thing, flawed end of rotation players that are really good at a few things and would be a plus if you can hide their flaws.
quote:
Cole sucks.
I have no idea why Cole got so much run while Ish was still on the team. Maybe Demps had multiple offers and that's how he got Philly up to 2 picks for a player the Pels weren't even playing any more.
Gee looks like he has some nice qualities and could be a solid rotation player, but at the end of the day it's the same math. If the little pieces can play any role besides trade filler in upgrading the bigger pieces, you jump on those deals. The bigger question is does whoever's in charge have a good plan for how to use these assets.
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