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re: Harrison Barnes should we...

Posted on 5/9/16 at 9:24 am to
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
25806 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 9:24 am to
If we give someone that's never even made an all star team, max money, i'm done until we have a wholesale change with the front office.

I dont' want Batum. I don't want Barnes. Not at the prices they are wanting.
I'd much rather find a trade somewhere or sign a guy like Bazemore or Crabbe.

If you're not going to be a huge difference maker for this team, which no SF in FA will be except Durant, then I don't want to be throwing max money at any of them. When I say huge difference maker, I mean be the 2nd best player on this team and be the guy with the ball in his hands running a pick and roll/pop, with AD in the last seconds of a game. Batum can't even dribble with his head up.
Posted by patendedgmf
BR
Member since Jun 2006
1443 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 9:28 am to
GSW will match unless Durant is coming.
Sadly, even if they aren't matched, it's probably not a bidding war we can win.
"Mo Speights Calls Harrison Barnes, Festus Ezeli ‘Future Lakers’" LakerNation
Both positions of need in LAL.
Imagine LAL getting the 1.3 or 1.4... 61.3% Chance they either get the 1.3 or don't have a pick at all. They for sure are going to be looking at other options. They might even see Ben Simmons as a Point Forward, at the 4. Which doesn't stop them from going after Harrison or Festus. Neither does Dragan Bender or a trade. Only players taking them off the LAL board are Brandon Ingram, and Nicolas Batum.

I think Batum will probably stay in Charlotte.
Can you imagine LAL adding Ben Simmons..
Then signing Harrison Barnes, Festus Ezeli, and ... DeMar DeRozan.
They have the money for 3 MAX players and then some to be added to that young core, and they aren't likely to be in this draft position again.

Go farther, what if they get 1.3, and trade Dragan Bender and D'Angelo Russell to SAC for Boogie. Then they are signing Harrison Barnes, DeMar DeRozan, and Mike Conley?

It's so fun to spend other teams money.
Posted by Toula
504
Member since Dec 2006
35399 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 9:40 am to
I just don't see GSW matching and having Barnes going into next season as their highest paid player. Their FO is too smart for that.

Curry also comes off books after next year.

I see GS letting Barnes and Ezeli go, and just using the cash in a smarter way and getting better (which is scary).
Posted by patendedgmf
BR
Member since Jun 2006
1443 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:50 am to
With the limited minutes that Festus is getting behind Bogut and Speights this post season, it's probably easy for them to let him go, especially if they are offered something in exchange. Then if Durant wants to come next season, they can let Harrison get his max money elsewhere too, and also maybe get something in exchange. So for sure it is possible they let BOTH leave. GSW is in a great spot. It will be a matter of preference, not cap, who will be starting for them next season. There will be no pure cap casualties here.

If they wanted to keep both Barnes and Festus though, it's possible.
(here are some projected NBA salary cap numbers going forward, with some analysis and explanation LINK / LINK )


With that $89MM-92MM number being thrown around for next year, and only $74MM+ committed (including Shaun Livingston who will likely be reworked and extended) they can get under the cap with the holds in place for Harrison and Festus, and sign them over. A back to back champion and the most popular team in the league COULD for sure do that.

With some creative deals closer to $18MM per than $20MM, BOTH guys can be kept long term. They should be able to squeeze Speights and McAdoo in there too, because Festus might not draw near that full $ value. Keeping the core team near fully intact for NEXT year. Then you can give Steph whatever he wants in 2017-18, because no way then 33 year old Bogut and 34 year old Iguodala are being extended.

If they want to keep Klay, Draymond, Harrison, Festus, and Steph.... the cap and tax are expanding at the perfect time for them to do it. Crazy to think that in 2 years from now they can have: Steph Curry, 30 - Klay Thompson, 28 - Festus Ezeli, 28 - Draymond Green, 28 - Harrison Barnes, 25 ... ALL locked up, in their primes.

Bench of Livingston, 32 - Speights, 30 - McAdoo, 25 - Kevon Looney, 22?

SCARY good.
Posted by Toula
504
Member since Dec 2006
35399 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 11:17 am to
It's really frightening. Then just wait until the aging veterans take the minimum there to chase a ring.
Posted by brmark70816
Atlanta, GA
Member since Feb 2011
9822 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 1:34 pm to
From what I hear, they can shed Bogut pretty easy and free up space right now. Its hard to believe the Durant thing, but this summer would be the time to move. I still don't think they would let Barnes just walk. I'd rather keep Barnes and lose Iggy+Bogut, then sign Duarnt. They are in a great spot and going to be hard to topple anytime soon..
Posted by NOFOX
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
9956 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 2:00 pm to
quote:

the "money ball" move is to try to trade for assets under "old cap" contracts and roll the dice there


You need assets to do that. We don't have any besides the pick. Money ball move is to develop your own talent.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423378 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 3:05 pm to
well we do have cap space to absorb the contract without having to send back salary, which is an asset

if a team is trying to add cap space to go after new FAs, not taking back salary is a big deal
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
61581 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 3:28 pm to
quote:

well we do have cap space to absorb the contract without having to send back salary, which is an asset


S&T Ryno for Rudy Gay is better than paying Ryno 4/$80, and you'd probably be able to afford adding Bazemore or Crabbe too. I know there a lot of people that don't want Gay and think he's an inefficient chucker, but he's still an above average NBA talent which is way better than what we've been playing at SF.
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
25806 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 8:07 pm to
I initially did not want Rudy Gay, but now I'm all in to get him.
I would jump for joy if we found a way to get Gay, Bazemore or Crabbe, and Hield or Dunn.
Posted by GynoSandberg
Member since Jan 2006
72058 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 11:30 pm to
So you're against signing a guy like Barnes or Batum but are willing to take on a Rudy Gay for nearly $30m for the next two seasons?
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
30137 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 11:45 pm to
quote:

So you're against signing a guy like Barnes or Batum but are willing to take on a Rudy Gay for nearly $30m for the next two seasons?



Batum @ 20 or Gay @ 15

42.6/34.8/84.9 shooting, 14.9 PPG, 6.1 RPG, 5.8 APG, 0.6 BPG, 0.9 SPG, 2.9 TOV

or

46.3/34.4/78.0 shooting, 17.2 PPG, 6.5 RPG, 1.7 APG, 0.7 BPG, 1.4 SPG, 2.0 TOV

one fits the mold of what we're trying to run, the other becomes a pure scorer who someone else should set him up or he iso's it
Posted by patendedgmf
BR
Member since Jun 2006
1443 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 11:48 pm to
Rudy has a more well rounded game. I've still got him rated as the 12th SF in the league. His stats are proven at a higher usage rate, which he'd maintain here.

The $5MM per year savings, between Rudy and the FAs will be significant in signing or resigning a SG too... whether we draft one or not.

If it comes down to a FA, it's Barnes over Bazemore because of the edge at 3-Pt shooting and Offensive rebounding.

*We're all jumping on the Rudy Gay train. Choo-choo!
This post was edited on 5/9/16 at 11:50 pm
Posted by GynoSandberg
Member since Jan 2006
72058 posts
Posted on 5/10/16 at 12:10 am to
quote:

Rudy has a more well rounded game


Than Batum? Lol no. Maybe Barnes

Batum is extremely valuable in today's NBA. Guy is one of the most versatile wings in the league. He can play and guard multiple positions and score in numerous different ways. He's got like 7'4" wingspan. He can push the ball on a break, shoot it off the screen or handoff, and so on. He fits this system

Imagine prime Igoudala in GS's offense. We see how well washed up Iggy did. Batum would be akin to prime Iggy for us


eta: and Gay has a player option year 2. Guy could seemingly just opt out after 1 year here. I mean, can we try and build some semblance of a core here?
This post was edited on 5/10/16 at 12:14 am
Posted by patendedgmf
BR
Member since Jun 2006
1443 posts
Posted on 5/10/16 at 2:23 am to
Yeh I was just saying Gay over Barnes or Bazemore, for cash reasons.
I see Batum more as a SG here. Similar to his role in Charlotte. Gay+Batum? Ok. :)
Hell, we are so gangsta.... If Ryno walks for nothing we just sign Barnes and Batum!
Lakers who? PELS son! They don't even know it.

Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
25806 posts
Posted on 5/10/16 at 9:26 am to
quote:

Guy is one of the most versatile wings in the league.


No he isn't. He's been an average 3 point shooter and is below average with his handles.

quote:

He can play and guard multiple positions and score in numerous different ways


He's a small forward. That's it. He can't guard PF B/C he's too damn skinny. He's not that great at guarding smaller guys B/c he really doesn't move his feet quick enough to stay in front of them. He is a good defender against the 2 and 3. I'm sire there are some advanced stats showing that, and if they show the opposite then I'd be surprised and change my tune about him a little.

One thing you know about Gay is that he is capable of getting his own shot off whenever he wants. Batum does not have that offensive game. But I agree, he can be a good scorer.

quote:

He's got like 7'4" wingspan

So does Gay


quote:

He can push the ball on a break, shoot it off the screen or handoff, and so on
.

So can Gay. For a lot cheaper.

If you ask me, gay is a better offensive player, while Batum is a better defender. Rudy Gay has never really played for a team wanting to win something. He's been in the playoffs once. Probably has a chip on his shoulder.


Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
32727 posts
Posted on 5/10/16 at 9:46 am to
quote:

including Shaun Livingston who will likely be reworked and extended


You do realize that this is the NBA and these types of deals very rarely occur, right?
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
61581 posts
Posted on 5/10/16 at 10:02 am to
quote:

eta: and Gay has a player option year 2. Guy could seemingly just opt out after 1 year here. I mean, can we try and build some semblance of a core here?


That'd actually be the reason I'm interested. Would you rather have Gay for one year or Ryno for 4/$80? It's a save us from ourselves kind of move.
Posted by GynoSandberg
Member since Jan 2006
72058 posts
Posted on 5/10/16 at 10:51 am to
Neither plz
Posted by NOFOX
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
9956 posts
Posted on 5/10/16 at 11:01 am to
quote:

Neither plz



I think we sign Solomon Hill.
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