re: Avenger: AoU Reviews (**MAJOR SPOILERS**)

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It would've been nice if we had seen the Avengers as a fully formed team for just one film. Instead we saw them infight until they were a team, then infight until they broke up. Now we have the next version of Avengers, but they'll have minimal exposure before we get to the Infinity Wars, where we'll have a mish-mash of the two teams forming a third version of the Avengers.

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Agreed.

And I really want to see this team as well. It'sa nice mix from WM to Vision and Witch, and Falcon. I'm kind of disappointed we won't get to see them in action. That's a major blow to the film's ending, even as a setup. What is the setup there for if we never see the results?

(Although I'm sure we'll get part of the team in Civil War)

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And maybe a better way to phrase my views on Stark was to say his character took his arrogance to a whole new level.

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It did, to an extent. My only problem with that is that was seemingly glossed over by the end of the movie when really it should have been played up more given the impending Civil War.

BTW did you see ex machina? The visuals (not talking about sfx) are amazing and really you forget that the majority of the movie is 2 people talking

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It was a turn your brain off kind of movie, and that's fine, but with the AI plot and a villain of such large scope (the eradication of mankind) I just think it should've been more than a 2 hour action sequence

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Well if it makes you feel better, it was longer than that w/more subtext but the big biz gods demand more repeat showing in theaters thus an hour got lopped off.

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Iron man is a taint

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He's ALWAYS been a jackass. I don't get why people seem to ignore this. Our intro to him in Iron Man 1 is him taking a reporter that is critical of his company's dirty arms dealing, bedding her, and then being a complete tool by having his secretary who he knows is sprung on him boot the girl for the house.

That right there sums him up perfectly. He does whatever he wants, whenever he wants, and he gives not one frick about what other think while he's doing it.

He just happens to pull his a-hole moves with style and charisma so people tend forgive his douchebaggery. Hell, if he wasn't a billionaire he'd be the friend you've known since grade school that you are scared to introduce to new people for fear of him making you look bad.

There's only a few actual plots in fiction, so that's no a real deal-breaker for me. Man v. Machine. All that changes is the details. And it's not like this movie hinges on plot.

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I saw all of the parenthood/duality/evolution stuff.

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As did I, but I was even more interested in its take on what makes a hero and the nature of sacrifice. Which leads us to one of my favorite parts of the film, the contrast between Black Widow and Hawkeye.

First, let's remember that they come from the same place to the Avengers. They were SHIELD agents who got caught up in the super hero stuff. They are ordinary people fighting alongside supermen.

For Widow, she chooses the path of sacrifice and heroism. She was essentially forced into being a spy and her back story is one of her being denied agency and the choice to be anything but a killing machine. She resents that, but right at the final battle, she pushes Banner into a hole to turn him into the Hulk. She chooses to deny herself the "normal" life that was being offered to her (and thought she had already been denied). Of course, there's the matter that her choice denies Banner of his, but that's a later issue. To be a hero, Natasha denies herself the trappings of an ordinary life. And at the end of the film, she's one of the few to stick with Cap as an Avenger.

OTOH, Hawkeye has a secret family. He's made choices to be a hero, but has also gone to extreme lengths to have a "normal" life, one that he is always working on (hence all of his home improvement projects). After he carries himself to the evacuation car, he collapses. He's done, physically and emotionally (also, let's point out that every cue in the film was he was the one to die -- right down to it seeming like One Last Job). Anyway, he sees the kid in peril, and he makes himself get up and go rescue him, at the cost of Quicksilver's life (plot twist!).

His reaction is that this cost is not worth it. He goes home to be with his wife and family because those are the things that matter to him. What worth is saving the world if it costs your kids their father? The cost of heroism becomes to high, and he cashes out.

ETA: Now, Black widow will continue with the Avengers. She will be, by definition, a Hero. However, if you asked the characters, they would say that Clint is the better Person. Natasha self-conceptualizes as a monster, and Clint as a regular dude. But he's the only one with the courage to do what has to be done, and then walk away.

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As did I, but I was even more interested in its take on what makes a hero and the nature of sacrifice. Which leads us to one of my favorite parts of the film, the contrast between Black Widow and Hawkeye.

First, let's remember that they come from the same place to the Avengers. They were SHIELD agents who got caught up in the super hero stuff. They are ordinary people fighting alongside supermen.

For Widow, she chooses the path of sacrifice and heroism. She was essentially forced into being a spy and her back story is one of her being denied agency and the choice to be anything but a killing machine. She resents that, but right at the final battle, she pushes Banner into a hole to turn him into the Hulk. She chooses to deny herself the "normal" life that was being offered to her (and thought she had already been denied). Of course, there's the matter that her choice denies Banner of his, but that's a later issue. To be a hero, Natasha denies herself the trappings of an ordinary life. And at the end of the film, she's one of the few to stick with Cap as an Avenger.

OTOH, Hawkeye has a secret family. He's made choices to be a hero, but has also gone to extreme lengths to have a "normal" life, one that he is always working on (hence all of his home improvement projects). After he carries himself to the evacuation car, he collapses. He's done, physically and emotionally (also, let's point out that every cue in the film was he was the one to die -- right down to it seeming like One Last Job). Anyway, he sees the kid in peril, and he makes himself get up and go rescue him, at the cost of Quicksilver's life (plot twist!).

His reaction is that this cost is not worth it. He goes home to be with his wife and family because those are the things that matter to him. What worth is saving the world if it costs your kids their father? The cost of heroism becomes to high, and he cashes out.

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Good analysis, well thought out.

Nice touch on the all of the home improvement jokes, that's something I didn't catch.

I think they gave some of them a catharsis. Just like Widow, Cap was absconded from youth and normalcy. We see him in Winter Soldier still wanting that. Still debating, holding on to Carter, telling Falcon he doesn't know what to do.

And he also makes that sacrifice (interesting that both Widow and Cap make similar sacrifices and end up "parents" of the new Avenger team). He gives it all up, that search (at least until Sharon is back in play).

They do, however, leave Thor and Hulk kind of lost. Maybe that's the point.

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He's ALWAYS been a jackass. I don't get why people seem to ignore this. Our intro to him in Iron Man 1 is him taking a reporter that is critical of his company's dirty arms dealing, bedding her, and then being a complete tool by having his secretary who he knows is sprung on him boot the girl for the house.

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I understand what you're saying, but part of Iron Man's development is that he overcame things like that when he decided to put on the suit and date Pepper. I feel like his character took a HUGE step back from where he has been, IMO. I understand that he's been an a-hole and that's been some of the draw that made him a fan favorite in the MCU. But his "I didn't do anything wrong" mentality is a step back. He felt HUGE guilt over the war his company had caused prior to becoming Iron Man.

But I also understand that they have to set up Civil War. He doesn't feel bad for wanting to build Ultron because he had good intentions. He wants to protect the world, but at what cost? We saw his Iron Legion robots getting things thrown at them in the beginning. Why? Because they feel like over policing people is a bad thing. This is a new aspect of Tony's character that is in being established in order to set up Civil War. Do I think this is the direction Iron Man should be going? No. If they were going to incorporate Civil War aspects, I would have rather they tackled this stuff earlier in the MCU. Better that they fight early on and then come together, IMO. Now it just looks like some characters are taking steps back. Just my opinion.

However, the stones having special powers changes things a little.

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Cap was absconded from youth and normalcy. We see him in Winter Soldier still wanting that. Still debating, holding on to Carter, telling Falcon he doesn't know what to do.

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As a kid, I didn't have much time for Captain America. I thought him to be boring do-gooder. But the Brubaker comics and his portrayal in the MCU have made him one of my favorite characters (and I will point out the other thing that changed is me -- I'm older and no longer see his idealism in such a poor light).

But the very best thing about Captain America is this uncertainty, underscored by his trust in people. Not just Americans, but people. Captain America has an unwavering faith in the goodness of humanity, despite everything he has seen. He tells Falcon he doesn't know what to do, but, here's the cool part, he still trusts Falcon to do the right thing. Cap would never build an AI behind people's back (for several reasons), but mainly because he doesn't believe in making decisions without other people. He values everyone.

He's also a man out of time, disconnected and alone. Which makes his faith in people even more remarkable. He's not giving lectures on the Greatest Generation, he believes that people haven't changed.

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I'm older and no longer see his idealism in such a poor light

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"Who would volunteer to let a German scientist experiment on them for the sake of their country?"

I thought that was pretty great. I think Evans and the writers have done a really great job over the 4 movies of fleshing out Cap and making him a more interesting character than I ever thought he could be. I didn't read him in the comics because I always just thought of him as a symbol of a bygone era more than a hero.

Evans is Captain America.