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re: #SECBias is the easiest thing to debunk, ever
Posted on 11/19/14 at 3:46 pm to JB Bama
Posted on 11/19/14 at 3:46 pm to JB Bama
quote:
1. You shouldn't have to win the division to go to a 4 team playoff. If you took out Alabama and Miss St. and put the Broncos and Patriots in the SEC West would you still argue the Broncos should be left out because they didn't win their division?
If the NFL has 65 teams, a 10-game schedule against those 65 teams, and a 4-team playoff... yes.
quote:
2. The SEC West is 30-3 vs. the rest of football so you need to factor that in when saying a 5-5 Arkansas team sucks because they're 6th in the west (notice Vegas has them as a top 20 team).
But who did they really beat? Let's reduce it to just Power 5 wins:
Bama - WVU, Fla, Tenn
MSU - Kentucky
OM - Vandy, Tenn, and we'll credit them for Boise
Auburn - K State, South Carolina (loss to UGA)
A&M - South Carolina (loss to Mizzou)
LSU - Wisconsin, Fla, Kentucky
Ark - Tex Tech (loss to UGA)
Out of conference against Power 5 teams (plus a Boise win), the SEC West is 5-0. We're basing SEC dominance, essentially, on five games spread amongst 7 teams. Sure, it's the best conference, but I don't quite think it's the juggernaut it needs to be to justify State's bid.
0
Posted on 11/19/14 at 3:47 pm to JB Bama
quote:
If you limited every power 5 conference to only playing within the power 5 conferences you'd quickly be able to establish which conference divisions are the strongest and you'd be much more able to compare a Miss. State to an Ohio State because there'd be a lot of crossover.
This needs to happen. But FCS and non-power 5 teams would suffer. Badly.
They need the rent-a-wins to stay afloat.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 3:50 pm to VABuckeye
quote:Compared to who? But they also have the "best" loss of 1 loss team.
And Miss State doesn't have a marquee win.
Personally I would like to see the SEC get left out of the play-off altogether. That would be more entertaining on the internet than 2 SEC teams getting in.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 3:55 pm to dante
Compared to Ohio State. They don't have a win that compares in any way to the road win against Sparty.
As to "best" loss? Not sure how to respond. It's still a loss and it had a window dressing touchdown to make it appear better.
As to "best" loss? Not sure how to respond. It's still a loss and it had a window dressing touchdown to make it appear better.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 4:00 pm to VABuckeye
quote:If you are going to compare "marquee wins" you also have to compare quality losses. Losing to the #1 ranked team on the road is a little different than losing at home to an un-ranked team.
Not sure how to respond. It's still a loss
Posted on 11/19/14 at 4:00 pm to VABuckeye
Michigan State isn't a great win. They are a 2 loss team with no marquee win. (LSU would have that same record with that schedule)
Miss State beat an Auburn team that has 3 losses but has wins against Kansas State and Ole Miss.
Ohio State doesn't have a better win than Miss St.
But they certainly have a worse loss.
Miss State beat an Auburn team that has 3 losses but has wins against Kansas State and Ole Miss.
Ohio State doesn't have a better win than Miss St.
But they certainly have a worse loss.
This post was edited on 11/19/14 at 4:08 pm
Posted on 11/19/14 at 4:03 pm to VABuckeye
quote:
And Miss State doesn't have a marquee win.
Well, it seems the committee thinks that right now:
LSU Away + Auburn Home + only loss to #1 Alabama Away
is slightly better than
Mich St Away + Minnesota Away + only loss at home to unranked Va Tech
I'm sure that part of what is informing the committee's perception now is:
Auburn and LSU may have more losses than Mich St and Minnesota but they also much better quality wins themselves, which is supposedly the basis for all this anyway.
If Miss St beats Ole Miss Away and Ohio St beats Wisconsin (who lost to LSU) to finish the season I wouldn't imagine the actual resume strength changes that much. Both teams would get one more quality win which would be pretty equal to each other, all things considered.
However, Ohio St would get the plus for being conference champions and that may be enough to compensate for being slightly behind otherwise. That and, right or wrong, simply a nod toward having a more diverse field of teams.
I'm sure it would be close and much debated and I wouldn't really argue too strongly either way.
I also doubt we'll actually get to see since there will likely be 2 or 3 more upsets that change everything we're discussing.
This post was edited on 11/19/14 at 5:07 pm
Posted on 11/19/14 at 4:17 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
Do you think that a team that doesn't win it's division deserves a shot at a playoff?
This is an LSU board. Precedent has been set.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 6:33 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
Do you think that a team that doesn't win it's division deserves a shot at a playoff?
Absolutely not, especially since they have already played head to head.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 6:54 pm to tress4pres
quote:
Absolutely not, especially since they have already played head to head.
I get the argument for only 4 conference champions being included but there's no need to add the head to head taboo.
If you punish teams that lost head-to-head with another playoff team it will not merely often reward a team that lost to a worse foe but, more importantly, discourage out of conference games like LSU v Wisconsin, Oregon v Mich St, Auburn v Kansas St etc etc if the loser may be screwed even if they run the table after that opening game.
I can see the argument for conference champions but the last thing we need is to discourage more big OOC matchups by putting a taboo on possible re-matches in the 4 team field.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 6:58 pm to wm72
They need to force teams to only schedule P5 teams.
It would end a lot of discussion.
It would end a lot of discussion.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 7:06 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
Do you think that a team that doesn't win it's division deserves a shot at a playoff?
Sure.
Why do you assume the same division can't contain 2 of the best 4 teams in the entire nation?
Division titles and conference titles are not play-in spots for the playoff. If they are, then it should be so stated. As it is not so stated, you don't need to win your division or conference. You need only argue that you are one of the four best teams in the country.
This isn't complicated.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 7:07 pm to BrerTiger
They put a premium on conference champions when they presented the guideline for the committee.
It would make sense that not even winning the division would also be a sub criteria in some fashion.
It would make sense that not even winning the division would also be a sub criteria in some fashion.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 7:07 pm to BrerTiger
What is it you determine "best"?
Because if you don't win a division you're not the best.
Because if you don't win a division you're not the best.
This post was edited on 11/19/14 at 7:08 pm
Posted on 11/19/14 at 7:14 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
They need to force teams to only schedule P5 teams.
It would certainly be great for fans but as long as Ohio St or Alabama could get 100k fans for a home game against a team made up of More Sports Board posters it's probably a pipe dream.
In the big picture, though, I think the arguments and counter arguments, all the endless hypotheticals, conspiracy theories and "we were simply ripped off's" are actually a bigger part of college football's appeal than we often realize in pining for ever more "objective" ranking systems.
This post was edited on 11/20/14 at 12:37 am
Posted on 11/19/14 at 9:40 pm to KosmoCramer
Soooo, did OSU lose its playoffs against VT??
Posted on 11/19/14 at 9:41 pm to Chair
quote:
Soooo, did OSU lose its playoffs against VT??
I guess we'll find out.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 9:51 pm to tress4pres
quote:so using your argument, all 4 teams selected can't have played each other during the season...regardless on conference.
Absolutely not, especially since they have already played head to head.
Using this logic, we shouldn't have any OOC games.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 2:12 pm to Baloo
quote:I know they are relevant. It is a fact that is not up for debate.
So you think they are relevant?
quote:Ok.
You think you can determine quality of a team because Team A beat a FCS team by 38 points and Team B beat a MAC team by 21? I mean, who gives a crap either way? Both games were layups and near automatic wins.
quote:This is factually incorrect.
How bad you beat a bunch of teams outside the Power 5 is absolutely irrelevant to determining the top 4 teams in the nation.
Your argument is terrible.
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