re: Penn State vacates all wins from 1998-2011, 4 year postseason ban, $73M fine

Where is the lack of "Due Process" coming from? As I see it, the NCAA was "gift wrapped" enough information thru live court testimony and documented paper trails that they had the smoking gun of a systematic cover-up. That information was presented to PSU BoT and they basically pled guilty.

Those arguing it was not NCAA verified information thru exhaustive investigation is pointless. This was testimony given under oath, something not afforded NCAA investigators. This was documentation provided to the Freeh Commission by PSU. Was anything the NCAA based their ruling on going to change? Also, this ruling was only an indictment on the "institution" known as PSU rather than Sandusky, Spainer, Curley, and Paterno. 2 completely separate entities.

Am I off base here?

quote:

---

Am I off base here?

---

No, you hit the nail on the head. The NCAA could never have done an investigation as thorough as former FBI director Freeh and law enforcement investigating the Sandusky matter (45 count criminal conviction beyond a reasonable doubt burden of proof). The due process argument is non-sensical in this situation. The University President and the Board of Trustees of Penn State consented to the penalties.

quote:

---

Those crying about due process are conveniently overlooking the benefit that Penn State has by expediting the process and getting it over with without the NCAA checking under the mattress too.

---

And not only that. IMO, those who are crying about due process are ignoring the whole reason for the NCAA's action today, the Freeh Report, or the 40+ counts of vileness for which a jury of his peers found Sandusky guilty. A university that tolerated this behavior while it was going on, and that since at least 1998, has already more than implicated itself in a charge of "lack of institutional controls." A head coach and football program, regardless of how storied they may have been, that tolerated this kind of thing deserve the sanctions and vacating of victories they got today by their very inaction.

And while today's PSU players may be inconvenienced or even frustrated by the NCAA's action, we must remember they still have the choice to stay or to go. They are not the real victims. The real victims are the boys Jerry Sandusky hand-picked to violate, and who JoePa and the Penn State brass chose to (for all intents and purposes) ignore for the sake of appearances. Vile is too kind a word...

quote:

---

Zamoro10
Penn State vacates all wins from 1998-2011, 4 year postseason ban, $73M fine
quote:

There is nothing wrong with the NCAA's actions for this unique set of circumstances.


Nothing worse in history when people in power "suspend rights" for "unique circumstances."

Sheep gonna sheep

---

Suspend rights? WTF? Since when does Penn State University even have a constitutional right to be a member of the NCAA?

Morons gonna moron.

quote:

---

Zamoro10
Penn State vacates all wins from 1998-2011, 4 year postseason ban, $73M fine
quote:
That the President, the Athletic Director and the Board of Trustees accepted this unprecedented action by the NCAA without requiring a full due process hearing before the Committee on Infractions is an abdication of their responsibilities and a breach of their fiduciary duties to the University and the 500,000 alumni. Punishing past, present and future students of the University because of Sandusky’s crimes does not serve justice. This is not a fair or thoughtful action; it is a panicked response to the public’s understandable revulsion at what Sandusky did.


I don't know how any educated adult can't agree with this.

---

I don't know how any educated adult can give a rat's arse for what the Paterno family thinks.

quote:

---

Zamoro10
Penn State vacates all wins from 1998-2011, 4 year postseason ban, $73M fine

quote:
Justice has been served, assuming your idea of justice for rape victims is to deprive a school of its next four Outback Bowl invitations.

And so, Emmert made sure his organization responded accordingly -- even if that meant revoking the traditional due process afforded every other school that's ever been punished by the NCAA; invoking a nebulous, generalized bylaw about promoting integrity that could easily apply to hundreds of lawbreaking players, coaches and staffers across the country every year; and creating a precedent for dictatorial-like intervention that must now be considered every time a scandal of any proportion arises in college athletics.

Remember when most college football fans assumed Auburn and/or Cam Newton would endure some sort of penalty when the quarterback's father openly solicited six figures from Mississippi State? The NCAA couldn't do anything, Emmert insisted, because there was no rule on the books addressing that specific scenario. We best not hear that excuse again.

And so, by waving his magic wand and making Penn State football non-competitive for the next many years, he hopes that all athletic programs will take notice and ensure they don't fall into the same trap.

Here's betting a $3 billion television contract and a $600 million-a-year playoff that he won't deter a darn thing. Instead, Penn State will remain at the front of the news for many years to come, not for the criminal acts of a former assistant coach or its leaders' abhorrent inaction in handling him, but for its football players' inevitable on-field futility.



Read more: LINK

---

So now you're gonna quote Mandel? Like I said...morons gonna moron.

Mandel's logic is so full of holes, it's hard to know where to begin.

First of all, let's look at his title, "Mark Emmert overstepped bounds". Nonsense. Emmert acted with the full authority of his board of directors, and Penn State accepted the penalty without appeal. Just because Mandel doesn't like what Emmert did...just because he may think that the NCAA doesn't have a role in this...doesn't mean that Emmert overstepped his bounds. Newsflash...the NCAA board of directors dictates what is and isn't within Mark Emmert's bounds, not Stewart Mandel or Zamoro10.

Second, pointing out that current PS players will suffer is a red herring. That happens any time a program gets hit with sanctions. It's a non-starter.

Third, the Cam Newton reference re. no rules on the books doesn't apply. There is very explicit language in the bylaws of the NCAA regarding ethical conduct of its members.

Fourth, the Baylor reference is irrelevant. Mandel can speculate all day long about what Emmert might or might not have done. And that's all it would be...speculation. It's completely irrelevant today.

Finally, his assertion that "invoking a nebulous, generalized bylaw about promoting integrity that could easily apply to hundreds of lawbreaking players, coaches and staffers across the country every year" is ridiculous. Mike Price, Bobby Petrino, Isaiah Crowell...whoever...when the university learns of a criminal act by a player or coach and then takes appropriate action, the NCAA has no interest beyond that. Arkansas promptly fired Bobby Petrino instead of covering for him. I don't care if Stewart Mandel does write for SI, the notion that the NCAA now may come back and hammer a program for something like what happened with Petrino at Arkansas is just stupid and sensationalistic.

quote:

---

quote:Zamoro10 Penn State vacates all wins from 1998-2011, 4 year postseason ban, $73M fine quote: There is nothing wrong with the NCAA's actions for this unique set of circumstances. Nothing worse in history when people in power "suspend rights" for "unique circumstances." Sheep gonna sheep Suspend rights? WTF? Since when does Penn State University even have a constitutional right to be a member of the NCAA? Morons gonna moron.

---

LOL,, so right,, the Supreme Court ruled on this on the Tarkanian caseLINK

Penn State JOINED the NCAA,, they can leave any time they want.

And as I alluded to Saturday/Sunday PSU agreed to this penalty because had the y not they would have been voted out of the NCAA in Jan at the annual meeting.

University Presidents across the county have been hearing from Alum/Donors.
This was an easy decision PR wise for the NCAA and PSU it could have and still might get worse

Just wait til the new US Senate is sworn in and they start hearings on how tax dollars are spent( Cleary Act)

People say ncaa shouldnt get involved, but when something illegal is done, it breaks the by laws of any organization. So players that do criminal acts shouldnt be suspended from the nfl or ncaa? An entire program and culture allowed child rape. Lets just go on like nothing happened. Oh wait those sick fricks already did. Its time for universities to stop allowing criminal acts to happen just so they can win a football game.

quote:

---

ApexTiger
Penn State vacates all wins from 1998-2011, 4 year postseason ban, $73M fine
How does the time line work out?

Sandusky's last game was 1999...

So take me from there relative to his connections to Penn State

I realize they let him on campus, correct?

What else?

When did the cover up actually happen? Prior to 1998?

---

Here's what to me is one of the most sickening parts of the cover-up:

Feb, 2001...Spanier's email to Schultz and Curley:
"The only downside for us is that if the message isn't heard and acted upon, we become vulnerable for not having reported it."

Aug, 2001...Sandusky assaults Victim #5 in the Lasch Building shower.

quote:

---

The higher ups (Paterno, Schultz, Curley, Spanier) were informed but never talked to Sandusky nor restricted his access to Penn State facilities and the Board of Trustees was not informed of this matter. This is why 1998 was the first year where Penn State was forced to vacate wins.

---

Joe Pa also testified before the GJ last year that he knew nothing of a 1998 incident.