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re: Just Watched "Happy Valley" on Netflix
Posted on 6/10/15 at 9:47 pm to sms151t
Posted on 6/10/15 at 9:47 pm to sms151t
quote:
You're forgetting 1 big thing. Paterno didn't see anything. It was reported to him by McQueary. McQueary should have reported it immediately, not 12 to 24 hours later. I'm not the morality police. As a mandated reporter though I'm required to report anything. I'm not sure Paterno was, thereby common sense says yes do something. But if you're wrong and ruined a mans life for something you heard from someone who thought he saw. It's trickier than you think. We have luxury of knowing some of the facts after.
The part you are forgetting is that this was not some guy on the street hearing about what was happening. This was pretty much the top of the football and school administration deciding to push it aside. The NCAA holds the institutions to ethics (or lack there of) which once again is why they should be pounded with penalties if not barring the program for the NCAA. Your frame of mind is on pretty small level infractions (paying players, changing grades etc). That is all we have ever seen. The thing you are not realizing is that this situation is at such high a level of incompetence and unethical behaviour by a program goverened by the NCAA, that they had all the right to hit them as hard as they could.
As far as having the luxury of the facts, that was the job of everyone involved. To get the facts. This wasn't some internal problem. This is a major felony that should have been called to the cops for them to investigate to find out.
1
Posted on 6/10/15 at 9:51 pm to sms151t
quote:
What jurisdiction does the NCAA have over a tenured employee that is doing nothing that violates NCAA regulations? That is why I stated the examples
I am quite certain that there are ethical statutes in place which would give them that jurisdiction. If lying to the NCAA results in you being banned as a head coach and the team on probation, then I am pretty sure that a program hearing allegations of raping happening while doing nothing means they have all the power to do as they wish.
This post was edited on 6/10/15 at 9:52 pm
Posted on 6/10/15 at 9:52 pm to flyAU
Sandusky wasn't part of the program.
I'm not condoning what was or was not done by Penn St. My issue is with the NCAA as they have no jurisdiction in this.
So should AU be put on probation for an athlete raping? No they shouldn't as that is the courts jurisdiction.
Here's the really big elephant in the room. Do you want the NCAA dealing punishment before doing a full study? Three times they've jumped the gun and botched everything lately.
I'm not condoning what was or was not done by Penn St. My issue is with the NCAA as they have no jurisdiction in this.
So should AU be put on probation for an athlete raping? No they shouldn't as that is the courts jurisdiction.
Here's the really big elephant in the room. Do you want the NCAA dealing punishment before doing a full study? Three times they've jumped the gun and botched everything lately.
This post was edited on 6/10/15 at 9:58 pm
Posted on 6/10/15 at 9:57 pm to sms151t
quote:
St. My issue is with the NCAA as they have no jurisdiction in this.
Would you consider the onus of the university or more specifically the program to stop a major felony from happening in their athletic complex if it is known that it is happening? Say that the mob has some dealings within the atletic complexes at Rutgers and the head admins harve heard it is happening and they choose to look the other way. Is this not a lack of institutional control? You are harboring illegal activity. If you hear of it happening the onus is on you to follow through with it to make sure your program is not harboring illegal activity.
That is taking the moral aspect out of it .
Posted on 6/10/15 at 10:00 pm to flyAU
What are the dealings?
If it's payments for play, academic, or gaining recruiting advantages it's NCAA if it's criminal pornography, fencing stolen goods, or distribution of drugs by a staffer by using fedex that gains no advantage to Rutgers then no the NCAA has no business leveling anything.
There are some items that are criminal and gain advantage. The NCAA has every right then to administer punishment
If it's payments for play, academic, or gaining recruiting advantages it's NCAA if it's criminal pornography, fencing stolen goods, or distribution of drugs by a staffer by using fedex that gains no advantage to Rutgers then no the NCAA has no business leveling anything.
There are some items that are criminal and gain advantage. The NCAA has every right then to administer punishment
This post was edited on 6/10/15 at 10:06 pm
Posted on 6/10/15 at 10:08 pm to sms151t
quote:
So should AU be put on probation for an athlete raping? No they shouldn't as that is the courts jurisdiction.
If Gus heard that a player was raping young kids in the athletic showers and he looks the other way, then yes absolutely the NCAA should smack down AU.
If Gus heard that a player was raping women in the athletic showers and he looks the other way, then yes absolutely the NCAA should smack down AU.
Posted on 6/10/15 at 10:18 pm to flyAU
What makes a rape occurring on campus more of an institutional problem than one happening right off campus by a student?
Posted on 6/10/15 at 10:19 pm to flyAU
I know we disagree on the reach of the NCAA but I must commend you on a few things:
Having a civil conversation while discussing an explosive topic
Sticking to your ideals and convictions of what the NCAA is
Having solid and responsible answers and questions.
Thank you for that.
Having a civil conversation while discussing an explosive topic
Sticking to your ideals and convictions of what the NCAA is
Having solid and responsible answers and questions.
Thank you for that.
Posted on 6/10/15 at 10:24 pm to goldenbadger08
quote:
"Society likes to destroy what they think is better than they are." - Mrs. Paterno
She's right. Not sure that's what was going on at PSU though.
Posted on 6/10/15 at 10:40 pm to sms151t
quote:
I know we disagree on the reach of the NCAA but I must commend you on a few things:
Having a civil conversation while discussing an explosive topic
Sticking to your ideals and convictions of what the NCAA is
Having solid and responsible answers and questions.
Thank you for that.
After trying to take a look through the NCAA handbook (and deciding how boring looking through it would be) I could very well be wrong in my assumption that "lack of instutional control" would include a athletic department and administration looking the other way and allowing a possible pedophile to continue using facilities which had been possible scenes of felonies. After all the nitpicking that the NCAA does and tends ot hand out infractions, the thought that this wouldn't be cut and dry "lack of institutional control" didn't even cross my mind. Any which way, good discussion.
This post was edited on 6/10/15 at 10:42 pm
Posted on 7/12/15 at 5:56 pm to goldenbadger08
Have a downvote.
Posted on 7/12/15 at 6:58 pm to flyAU
quote:
After trying to take a look through the NCAA handbook (and deciding how boring looking through it would be) I could very well be wrong in my assumption that "lack of instutional control" would include a athletic department and administration looking the other way and allowing a possible pedophile to continue using facilities which had been possible scenes of felonies. After all the nitpicking that the NCAA does and tends ot hand out infractions, the thought that this wouldn't be cut and dry "lack of institutional control" didn't even cross my mind. Any which way, good discussion.
Still be a stretch.
However, I remember from when this was an ongoing story that the NCAA bylaws include an open-ended provision allowing a member institution to be expelled by a supermajority vote. While the NCAA certainly didn't anticipate Sandusky, Penn State would have had a very difficult time going to court and arguing that being voted off the island was an excessive punishment, and it would have been clearly within the bounds of the membership agreement.
Posted on 7/12/15 at 7:54 pm to sms151t
It's simply chickenshit to pretend Joe did enough by reporting it. The man still maintained an office on campus and you knew he was still frequently around children. He allowed it to be swept under the rug as to not tarnish his program's image, in the meantime you allowed more kid's to fall victim to him. Joe Pa is an a-hole.
Posted on 7/12/15 at 10:23 pm to BilJ
Your witch hunt mentality is what's chickenshit. You can't judge anyone nor can I. Paterno did what he was supposed to so by law. You can question his morality. But why didn't McQueary report it? You want to condem one when not understanding it was others that committed crimes or saw crimes happen.
So you understand it was McQueary that saw the act. It was Penn State that gave him tenure. It was penn State that allowed him to use facilities.
So you understand it was McQueary that saw the act. It was Penn State that gave him tenure. It was penn State that allowed him to use facilities.
This post was edited on 7/12/15 at 10:26 pm
Posted on 7/12/15 at 10:32 pm to BilJ
If possible my opinion of Penn State fans got even worse after watching this documentary. In fairness I don't have much experience with them IRL, but damn did they look bad during this whole incident
Posted on 7/12/15 at 10:35 pm to goldenbadger08
quote:
a 87% graduation rate,
Well shite, that means more than covering up child rape in order to protect their football program.
Posted on 7/12/15 at 10:37 pm to sms151t
quote:See this quote,
Your witch hunt mentality is what's chickenshit.
quote:
"This is how we deal with things in America, we find the very sensational story and then we try and create a shaming spectacle to allow culture to move on. Its a way to avoid doing something about it."
Posted on 7/12/15 at 10:53 pm to sms151t
wait why can't I judge him for his hand in helping shield a pedophile?
I haven't and don't place all of the blame on Paterno, but I don't consider him a victim or someone who was wronged in the aftermath of it all.
I haven't and don't place all of the blame on Paterno, but I don't consider him a victim or someone who was wronged in the aftermath of it all.
Posted on 7/12/15 at 11:32 pm to BilJ
He helped? How so? Did he not report it? Did he actively participate? Did he provide tenure? Did he give keys?
Your hate for Paterno is bullshite. You can hate Penn State but Paterno did what he was legally required. You can't deny that. The media got it's scapegoat the NCAA over reacted. Paterno was hanging on senile out of touch, but not a child rapist or pedophile.
Your hate for Paterno is bullshite. You can hate Penn State but Paterno did what he was legally required. You can't deny that. The media got it's scapegoat the NCAA over reacted. Paterno was hanging on senile out of touch, but not a child rapist or pedophile.
Posted on 7/12/15 at 11:47 pm to goldenbadger08
quote:
Really? Then why did he specifically cite academics first and foremost?
quote:
Our goal is not to be just punitive
= FIRST, our goal is to punish.
quote:
but to make sure the university establishes an athletic culture and daily mindset in which football will never again be placed ahead of educating, nurturing and protecting young people."
= In addition to punishing, we want to make sure football doesn't come ahead of educating (not just school, but how to identify and inform people when something is wrong),
nurturing (taking care of people who are more than or not football players)
protecting young people (not letting anyone who is a player or CHILD get harmed again)
..... It's not that difficult to see why the rape of children is held in a different light then a cheating in school scandal.
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