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Posted on 11/30/15 at 12:52 pm to Mr. Hangover
Posted on 11/30/15 at 12:52 pm to rocket31
quote:
it was 28-42 with two minutes left in the game when Bama scored a garbage TD - dont be deluded. Ohio State out-gained you distinctly too
They beat us. They were the better team. Not really disputing that. We had the ball down 6 with 1:25 on the clock. That's not my definition of "getting smashed." What Oregon did to FSU or what UA did Notre Dame fits that description much better.
You can also make the point that without a conference championship to hang their hat on, that Ohio State team isn't in the Playoff last year. So there is a perception of accomplishment that comes with winning your conference....But that's not the point of this thread.
Posted on 11/30/15 at 12:58 pm to AbuTheMonkey
The absolute only way ND would join a conference is if teams started refusing to play them.
As a fan, it would kinda suck because it's national title or bust... and for the last 30 years it's been bust. In a conference there's always a chance to accomplish something even when you're not winning it all
As a fan, it would kinda suck because it's national title or bust... and for the last 30 years it's been bust. In a conference there's always a chance to accomplish something even when you're not winning it all
Posted on 11/30/15 at 1:24 pm to Mr. Hangover
quote:
You keep saying this along with other facts but you've never said 'why'...
Are you just regurgitating stuff you've been hearing your whole life without any explanation?
Nope.
It is core to the identity of the university in ways that most just don't understand. A fair amount of it goes back to some of the ugly anti-Catholic stuff from the Big Ten and the local community way back in the day. Rightly or wrongly, Notre Dame sees itself as the premier Catholic university in America (probably Georgetown being the only one to have a serious argument otherwise) and a standard-bearer for the American Catholic community. They feel they must be independent in football and a truly national university, playing every single year from California to New York and beyong, to maintain that.
The real shot-callers at ND (the DeBartolos, the McKennas, the Keoughs, the Jordans, etc, etc) are some pretty damn powerful people and absolutely will not hear of joining a conference full-time...ever.
It's a small-ish university with a $10 billion endowment. It doesn't need the money or reputation from football and would probably go the U Chicago or Harvard/Yale/Princeton route and either drop it altogether or drop a division to maintain that.
Edit to add: I think more programs should be independent and should stop subsidizing the lessers in their conferences. Look at Penn State - they haven't done jack squat since joining the Big Ten. I think Texas should take a long and hard look at it. Miami, other than their brief time at the top of the mountain under Davis/Coker, has fallen completely off since they joined a conference. It regionalizes and marginalizes otherwise elite programs.
This post was edited on 11/30/15 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 11/30/15 at 2:46 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
They feel they must be independent in football and a truly national university, playing every single year from California to New York and beyong, to maintain that.
As an ND alumni (born and raised in the South), I'd like to add a few additional comments. In my view, Notre Dame is independent for two main reasons: tradition and its in the best interest of the university.
Concerning what's in the best interest of the university, its important to remember that ND is truly a National university. Its students and alumni come from all parts of the US and playing games nationally maintains this connection to both past and prospective students (and of course contributing alumni and other donors). Every year, ND plays 2 California teams and plays in LA and the Bay Area on alternating Thanksgiving weekends. Next year ND plays in Texas twice and Florida once. So along with the mid-west and northeast (where they play regularly), this covers the US very well. It helps maintain this connection with future students/alumni, allows non-alumni ND fans to see a game in their area, and of course helps with recruiting. The tie-in with the ACC has been very good in recruiting players from the southeast and mid-Atlantic states (look at the ND roster) and adds to the already strong pipeline from California, Texas and the mid-west.
Now concerning tradition, this is very important at ND and should not be underestimated. Change takes time there and it only changes when it becomes obvious that change is needed. For most of its history, ND was independent in basketball. By the mid-90s, it became obvious that it would be in ND's best interest to join a conference and it joined the Big East in 1995 for all sports except football and then joined the ACC. Joining the ACC has been very beneficial and ND has been very competitive in men's and women's basketball, soccer, lacrosse and other sports since joining. Thus, joining the ACC in these sports was in Notre Dame's best interest.
Concerning football, at this time, its in Notre Dame's best interest to remain an Independent (as it has been for over 100 years) and maintain a national schedule. If that changes, Notre Dame will change.
Posted on 11/30/15 at 3:49 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
It doesn't need the money or reputation from football and would probably go the U Chicago or Harvard/Yale/Princeton route and either drop it altogether or drop a division to maintain that.
Just not sure I can agree with that. I'm pretty sure pressure from fans and alumni would force ND into a conference over what you stated. Not that I think they ever will, but with the options you posted, they would end up in a conference full time.
This post was edited on 11/30/15 at 3:58 pm
Posted on 11/30/15 at 3:53 pm to lowspark12
quote:
The absolute only way ND would join a conference is if teams started refusing to play them.
teams are lining up in droves to play ND, dont hold your breath
Posted on 11/30/15 at 3:57 pm to rocket31
quote:
s are lining up in droves to play ND, dont hold your breath
I mean, obviously. Did you not read tOP?
Posted on 11/30/15 at 4:05 pm to rocket31
quote:True. I wish you guys would have kept Michigan and Michigan State though. The 5 ACC games with those 2 and the 2 Cal schools would be the best schedule year in and out. Are you going to go undefeated with that schedule? frick no, but if they did they would be the 1 seed in the playoffs no doubt.
teams are lining up in droves to play ND, dont hold your breath
Posted on 11/30/15 at 4:21 pm to MontyFranklyn
quote:
True. I wish you guys would have kept Michigan and Michigan State though. The 5 ACC games with those 2 and the 2 Cal schools would be the best schedule year in and out. Are you going to go undefeated with that schedule? frick no, but if they did they would be the 1 seed in the playoffs no doubt.
I frankly don't miss Michigan at all, but I know a lot of my fellow alumni do. We've got Michigan State coming back on next year for a home and home.
My preference would be to cut the ACC agreement to 4 games per year and do something like this every year:
4 ACC
USC
Stanford
Navy
1 SEC team
1 B1G team
1 Big XII team
2 breather games (Rice, Tulsa, other academies, etc)
Admittedly, I really like our schedule next year:
@ Texas
Nevada
Michigan State
Duke
@ Syracuse (Meadowlands)
@ NC State
Stanford
Miami
@ Navy (Jacksonville)
Army (San Antonio)
Virginia Tech
@ USC
We hit every region of the country and the southeast particularly hard. Nice balance of traditional powerhouses and interesting new names.
2017 is shaping up to be really interesting as well:
UGA
@ Boston College
Miami (OH)
@ UNC
NC State
Wake Forest
@ Miami
@ Stanford
Temple
Navy
USC
@ Michigan State
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