re: Top 5 programs next 3 years

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chilge1

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My only question is it usually takes Saban 2 years to build up that talent. He has a good season, then great, and once key players they drop back to medicore. Of course this has been when he bailed so no one can say he can or can't sustain. He has never really had a chance as he doesn't stick with a program for more than 5 years.

You can't just ignore recruiting when rating college coaches, and when it comes to recruiting Petey, Saban, CUM and Miles lead the pack.

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As long as Texas A&m stays down..LSU will continue to be top 5..

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What is your reason for this statement?

Miami's recruiting has been pretty good all the way through. Their problems were not recruiting...

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My only question is it usually takes Saban 2 years to build up that talent. He has a good season, then great, and once key players they drop back to medicore

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I'm not sure what the question was in there... but...

All I'm saying is that in my view, sustaining is having consistent good years and an occasional great year with the possible aberration mixed in. The fallout that comes at the end of Saban's tenures that you describe as "back to mediocre" is not sustaining the program.

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He has never really had a chance as he doesn't stick with a program for more than 5 years.

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And this is all I was saying. It is in the nature of Saban to restore a program and then abandon it. He doesn't take currently great programs and keep them great.

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If you cant tell that A&M and Colorado programs havnt been the same since Saban went to LSU and changed the culture i dont know what to tell u bro...

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So Saban is the reason that A&M has finished in the top 5 once (1956) since 1939?

I guess my issue with your logic is that you assume that A&M is "down" when the reality is they are who they are. A mediocre at best team in a state littered with talent.

But you can't say A&M is down. They've never really been up.

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Two flaws in your logic. That team LOST to Auburn and LOST to Iowa. No matter how close those losses were, they exist.

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More like a flaw in your ability to read a fricking post. When did I say they were 11-1? I said they were 9-3 with two close losses. After Saban wins a national title, his next team that loses the majority of its stars goes 9-3 and is 11-1 had those same stars been back another year. He maintained the program, but he lost his experienced stars.

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I'm really tiring of hearing this. I give Saban all the credit in the world for providing the tools for success, but it takes a good coach to utilize that talent. Miles won with those players in 2005, 2006, and 2007. Saban was in Miami. He didn't sustain crap.

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But Miles isn't a good coach. You are seeing now and will continue to see that he isn't a good coach. Saban stacked the program with guys who were ridiculously talented and didn't overly frick up team chemistry. Without Saban, a lot of those guys aren't at LSU, so whether you want to call it sustaining or not, you have to give partial credit to him for that success because those guys were wearing an LSU uniform because of Saban.

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Note that I'm not arguing that he CAN'T maintain programs after building them, just that he leaves before faced with that challenge.

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He left LSU for what he thought was his dream job. He sucked at that, so he came back to the closest thing to LSU available. He isn't leaving Bama anytime soon unless it's for retirement.

[quote]But you can't say A&M is down. They've never really been up.[/quote


I didnt know i was making a point with them being a top 5 program that suddenly fell off because of LSU.. With that said, if you really going to tell me that A&M wasnt a good football program and with the right person in there a top 25 program then idk what to tell you

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More like a flaw in your ability to read a fricking post. When did I say they were 11-1? I said they were 9-3 with two close losses. After Saban wins a national title, his next team that loses the majority of its stars goes 9-3 and is 11-1 had those same stars been back another year. He maintained the program, but he lost his experienced stars.

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Why even mention the losses to Iowa and Auburn if you're not trying to give some merit to the season? I'm fully aware of what you said. I countered by saying that no matter how close the losses were, they were losses. Would they have been had those star players returned? Most certainly not. But it's the job of the coach to cope with such losses and he failed at doing so, to a degree.

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But Miles isn't a good coach. You are seeing now and will continue to see that he isn't a good coach. Saban stacked the program with guys who were ridiculously talented and didn't overly frick up team chemistry. Without Saban, a lot of those guys aren't at LSU, so whether you want to call it sustaining or not, you have to give partial credit to him for that success because those guys were wearing an LSU uniform because of Saban.

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You're right. Charles Alexander and Harry Coleman are wearing LSU uniforms because of Nick Saban. I give him all the credit for bringing us a national championship and the recipe for success in years to come. But you can't give him Miles' wins because he provided the raw talent.

FWIW, I can't say at this point that Miles is not a good coach. The man has a winning percentage over .800. And don't bring the Larry Coker argument in here because I can name far more examples of coaches who inherited a talented team and did amazing things with it.

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He left LSU for what he thought was his dream job. He sucked at that, so he came back to the closest thing to LSU available. He isn't leaving Bama anytime soon unless it's for retirement.

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A bold statement, but nothing more than an opinion. His track record shows his tendencies, and although he might very well stay at Alabama, his past indicates that he's more likely to flee should an opportunity present itself.

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Why even mention the losses to Iowa and Auburn if you're not trying to give some merit to the season? I'm fully aware of what you said. I countered by saying that no matter how close the losses were, they were losses. Would they have been had those star players returned? Most certainly not. But it's the job of the coach to cope with such losses and he failed at doing so, to a degree.

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Let's put it this way, which situation would you more likely consider a "sliding" program.

A. 9-3, loses all three games by 1 point each to a BCS bowl team.

B. 9-3, loses all three games by 50 points each to a BCS bowl team.

That's the point I'm making. He sustained the program, but if LSU got raped three times, you could argue that the program was going down a bit.

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You're right. Charles Alexander and Harry Coleman are wearing LSU uniforms because of Nick Saban. I give him all the credit for bringing us a national championship and the recipe for success in years to come. But you can't give him Miles' wins because he provided the raw talent.

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Sure I can!

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A bold statement, but nothing more than an opinion. His track record shows his tendencies, and although he might very well stay at Alabama, his past indicates that he's more likely to flee should an opportunity present itself.

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He upgraded every time though. Not too many upgrades from Bama unless LSU opens up.