re: Props to Coach Miles. Really.

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He knows that but doesn't care. He's going to take this opportunity to take some anger out on Miles

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Thank you for your divination concerning what it is that I do and do not know, oh Epistimological Oracle.

As I said above, all I really know is that whatever measures the staff took to try and instill discipline in Mathieu between last year's suspension and this year's dismissal FAILED. That's incontrovertible, because he broke team rules yet again. The staff shouldn't be praised for that.

(By the way, I understand and acknowledge the subsidiary point that LSU has responded properly by dismissing TM at this juncture. But that entirely overlooks the fact that they would never have been in this position in the first instance had they not failed in the much more important task of instilling discipline in TM and ensuring he remained on the team. No one can reasonably dispute that the best outcome would have been for TM7 to abide by team rules and be a part of the 2012 squad. That's the outcome the staff should have secured. That would have actually deserved praise.)

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But, I do have the end results to base make a judgment

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You can if you want to spin it to criticize

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1. Recruits players that won't end up being able to follow his discipline.

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Every program in the SEC recruits kids that fail to follow the rules. His job is to win games, not be a drill instructor.

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But, to act like Miles is some great coach is retarded

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The results during his tenure speak volumes about his ability to run a major college football program. I think he knows more about how to do that than anyone on this board, including you.

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Just because you see someone disciplining someone in public doesn't mean they are doing a good job in private

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Again, you don't know what his staff does behind the scene to motivate kids to follow the rules.

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Discipline (on and off the field) has never been a Miles strong point.




Yeah, that's apparent by having to kick his best player off the team twice.

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Prom, think about what you are saying there.

You are arguing that Miles is good at instilling discipline in his players because two of his stars repeatedly violated team rules and ultimately had to be dismissed from the team?! Doesn't that pattern actually speak to a LACK of discipline within the program. In other words, wouldn't it be far better if the staff had taught RP and TM the discipline necessary to follow team rules before they had to be dismissed to the detriment of the program?

It just strikes me as crazy to argue that Miles is a great disciplinarian by virtue of the fact that he had to kick off two key players for serial rules violations!

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The312

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What should he have done then? Please, captain hindsight, step in and show Coach Miles and all of us poor idiot fans blindly following a failed leader how he SHOULD have handled it. Or just keep hiding behind big words that you sprinkle in as you type posts with a thesaurus in hand thinking it'll make your posts more reasonable.

You have continued to ignore the simple fact coaches cannot literally be following these players each and every day. Miles can't be there to take a joint out of TM's hands. While you sit there and criticize Miles for being the head of a team that has had 4 incidents in 12 months most of which have been for personal use of drugs, teams like Penn State are being dismantled, UGA is routinely cleaning house, Arkansas had 3 players involved with a robber, UT has players dismissed...

Sure, Miles' program may not be ideal. No one operates to perfection. When you are a powerhouse program, the level of athlete you recruit sometimes carries behavioral risk. In this case, discipline could not override personal behavior. But your side of the extreme is a perspective even less warranted for a FAN to hold, until you can provide insight otherwise into how the 'installation of discipline' should've gone down.


:NB4lowpostcount

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What should he have done then? Please, captain hindsight, step in and show Coach Miles and all of us poor idiot fans blindly following a failed leader how he SHOULD have handled it. Or just keep hiding behind big words that you sprinkle in as you type posts with a thesaurus in hand thinking it'll make your posts more reasonable.

You have continued to ignore the simple fact coaches cannot literally be following these players each and every day. Miles can't be there to take a joint out of TM's hands. While you sit there and criticize Miles for being the head of a team that has had 4 incidents in 12 months most of which have been for personal use of drugs, teams like Penn State are being dismantled, UGA is routinely cleaning house, Arkansas had 3 players involved with a robber, UT has players dismissed...

Sure, Miles' program may not be ideal. No one operates to perfection. When you are a powerhouse program, the level of athlete you recruit sometimes carries behavioral risk. In this case, discipline could not override personal behavior. But your side of the extreme is a perspective even less warranted for a FAN to hold, until you can provide insight otherwise into how the 'installation of discipline' should've gone down.

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Well said. Good post

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I don't think miles deserves any blame here.

I also don't think miles deserves much praise for booting tm7.

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Agreed 100%. Miles wouldn't want any praise either. You could tell this was a very difficult thing for him to do. It wore on him obviously.

And all these posts "Saban/Richt/Meyer would never have done this only Miles has class blah blah blah" are fricking retarded.

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As I said above, all I really know is that whatever measures the staff took to try and instill discipline in Mathieu between last year's suspension and this year's dismissal FAILED. That's incontrovertible, because he broke team rules yet again. The staff shouldn't be praised for that.

All we do know for certain is that those measures failed, as proven by the ultimate outcome.

(By the way, I understand and acknowledge the subsidiary point that LSU has responded properly by dismissing TM at this juncture. But that entirely overlooks the fact that they would never have been in this position in the first instance had they not failed in the much more important task of instilling discipline in TM and ensuring he remained on the team. No one can reasonably dispute that the best outcome would have been for TM7 to abide by team rules and be a part of the 2012 squad. That's the outcome the staff should have secured. That would have actually deserved praise.)

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That's not entirely true. We also know that two of TM's teammates were suspended along with him last fall for similar misconduct. We also know that those two players ARE still on the team, so therefore they have presumably NOT continued to violate but have learned to "abide by team rules and be a part of the 2012 squad".

So you must certainly be about to start a thread praising Miles for the success of keeping Simon and Ware clean since the Auburn game then right??? They are still on the team, so clearly Miles has succeeded, at least to this point, in instilling in them the discipline to stay on the team.

And who knows, perhaps a different coach would have been even LESS successful, and TM would have run into trouble last December, keeping him off of the field for the BCSCG. (And no, rantards, that would not have been a good thing) Who knows? Maybe Miles' efforts were extraordinary to get him this far.

Your perception of this being a failure by Miles is pretty cold hearted. Do you have kids? Have any of them ever struggled with substance abuse, grades in the classroom, etc?

Parents, coaches, friends, siblings, husbands, wives, children can do everything humanly possible to try to help the people they care about stop self destructive behavior. Unfortunately, as is all too often the case, it isn't enough unless the person takes charge of their own life and stops making the decisions that have led them down such a path of self destruction.

Are the parents/siblings/friends etc, of every felon rotting away in jail, dead too young due to substance abuse issues FAILURES in your eyes? Certainly some may be, but to say that anyone close to a person who fails in life is also a failure is just inhumane.

That is a harsh viewpoint, and I pity you if you ever end up with someone you care about being beyond your ability to help them. It's a feeling I wouldn't wish on anyone.

It happens to the best of us, even those of us that aren't FAILURES.


:fearthehat:

Always like your perspective too Rocket. Looking forward to moving on from this, and hopefully TM can too. I wish him all the success in the world in living up to his extremely high potential.

Nobody deserves props in this situation. Nobody wins(except for Miles Haters, Inc)

Moscona is on the radio saying that LSU staff did everything they could imaginable to keep him in line, including bringing in former LSU players to talk to him and assigning a "shadow" to him.