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re: 2011 Alternative Scenario
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:10 pm to GeauxTigerTM
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:10 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
FIFY
It would have been bad enough to have to face a non champion from another conference that had not even made it to it's own conference championship game...but to have to face a team from within it's own DIVISION after beating that same team in their own damn yard when everyone assumed that game meant everything?
Come on...
With sentiments like these, why do you even care about the title game? 21-0 >>> 42-14. Notre Dame backed their way to a #1 ranking because several other teams dropped a game. The ranking system is flawed beyond simple voter bias. It wasn't hard to tell that Notre Dame wasn't great. They struggled with several average and bad teams. Their one good win was Oklahoma, whom despite being given several weeks to prepare, lost even worse to Texas A&M.
Systems prior to the BCS allowed for rematches and made mistakes too. There were some odd rules in place that would allow #1 and #2 to play in different bowl games. Additionally, overtime did not exist and titles could be split.
1996 Florida lost to Florida State but blew them out in the rematch. Was this unfair to Florida State? Would you back up everyone that was "robbed" by the system? You learn a lot of things after the bowl games are played.
You weren't the first screwed over by uncontrollable factors, and you won't be the last.
4
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:11 pm to Bmath
Accepting compensation for that abortion of a game is probably the only acceptable manner of dealing with it....
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:13 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
Oklahoma State had 2 wins over team that finished the season ranked:
Actually, it was 3 (4 if you count Stanford in the bowl game). They beat #13 Baylor, #15 KSU, and #16 OU. And while they didn't play any great defenses, they did play some great offenses. Baylor was 4th in the nation in scoring. OSU held em to 24 points. OU was 10th. They scored 10. A&M was 11th, and they at least scored 29.
Also, Bama might say that they only beat one ranked team, but they beat two good teams (Auburn and PSU) who were both in the "also receiving votes" category. Well, so did OSU (Mizzou and Texas).
OSU had more quality wins, won the 2nd toughest conference in the nation, and their one loss was a road game on a short week after a campus tragedy decided in overtime on a controversial call. The only thing OSU lacked was a brand name. If it was Oklahoma, and not Oklahoma St, they play for the national title with that resume.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:14 pm to Gardevoir
Of course Alabama was the toughest rematch. Michael Brockers and Freak Johnson would have blown up the Oregon front again. Bama matched up well, and the attitude in the locker room was not good before. Bad setup for LSU. Questionable QB decisions but that's behind us now. Great season minus the last game.
Jordan Jefferson would have looked like Cam Newton against the Oklahoma State defense. THis is not a question as to whether or not Alabama was good but--under the current BCS system--did they deserve to go after losing at home? I honestly don't think so because I know LSU wouldn't have gone had they lost on the road. Media bias everywhere. Not to mention Saban got a vote in the coaches' poll, which is a BCS factor, when Ok. State coach Mike Gundy didn't. That year is an example of why that needs to change.
Jordan Jefferson would have looked like Cam Newton against the Oklahoma State defense. THis is not a question as to whether or not Alabama was good but--under the current BCS system--did they deserve to go after losing at home? I honestly don't think so because I know LSU wouldn't have gone had they lost on the road. Media bias everywhere. Not to mention Saban got a vote in the coaches' poll, which is a BCS factor, when Ok. State coach Mike Gundy didn't. That year is an example of why that needs to change.
This post was edited on 7/30/13 at 4:19 pm
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:15 pm to Gardevoir
quote:
Notre Dame backed their way to a #1 ranking because several other teams dropped a game.
ND and Ohio State were the only two undefeated teams last year. Period. Bama got into the game last year because Ohio had a bowl ban. Face the facts: Your last two championships just aren't as great as you think they are. You have 12 others to gloat over so get over it.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:15 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
Alabama was a better team than LSU in 2011. I can admit that.
False as frick
LSU proved on the field every week by navigating through one of the toughest schedules in recent memory. Bama lost at home to their only competition all year.
Were they the better team 1/9? Yea I'll give them that, but to say they were a better team than LSU in 2011 is just ignorant
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:17 pm to Gardevoir
It is time to move on, but I still think LSU and Bama were, by far, the best 2 teams in the nation in 2011.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:20 pm to Bmath
quote:
False. LSU was undefeated in 2011. Alabama was second in their division, and didn't play for conference title. LSU was the best team in the conference. They already printed the shirts.
Outside of 1/9 I have never seen an objective argument as to why Bama was the better team during the regular season. Margin of victory was similar vs common opponents, but Bama didn't play anyone else worth a damn outside of the SEC West.
Bama rode into the championship using LSU as a proxy for what could have been. The media sold it, and the human polls bought it.
LSU flat out shite the bed during the NCG in 2012. It is what it is.
I'll bite. The defenses were even at worst. Alabama's offense was better. Do you think Alabama's offense played to their potential on 11/5/11? It took LSU overtime to beat Alabama's B or C game despite your Special Teams and defense playing better. On 1/9/12, your defense and special teams came to play, and Alabama was more than prepared for the offense you played. On 11/5/11, the game planned for Lee not Jefferson running the option. The option didn't really have that much success versus Alabama anyways, but it was enough for the win.
LSU did not shite the bed. Your defense and Special Teams came to play. Returns were a non-factor for both teams in both games. Kicking made a huge difference in the first game, and Alabama kicked better on 1/9/12. Jarrett Lee had a terrible career record against Alabama, so a quarterback switch would not have won you the game versus Alabama that night. They were getting excellent pressure on the quarterback and virtually took everything away.
LSU won on 11/5/11 because they made far fewer mistakes. When Alabama brought their A game, played less conservatively, and made no mistakes, LSU was blown out.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:20 pm to NorthLaTigerFan
quote:
It is time to move on, but I still think LSU and Bama were, by far, the best 2 teams in the nation in 2011.
Who did Bama beat in 2011 for you to believe this? I keep hearing this as some sort of moral victory cry. Yet I never see any real evidence.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:26 pm to Gardevoir
quote:
LSU won on 11/5/11 because they made far fewer mistakes. When Alabama brought their A game, played less conservatively, and made no mistakes, LSU was blown out.
I was wondering how long it would take before the "beat ourselves" bit reared up.
Only Alabama did that the first game. LSU didn't beat themselves the 2nd game whatsoever. Only Alabama does that.
This post was edited on 7/30/13 at 4:28 pm
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:27 pm to Gardevoir
quote:
LSU won on 11/5/11 because they made far fewer mistakes. When Alabama brought their A game, played less conservatively, and made no mistakes, LSU was blown out.
And there it is folks. The patented "LSU didn't win, bama just didn't play well and lost it" response
This post was edited on 7/30/13 at 4:31 pm
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:29 pm to Gardevoir
quote:
Systems prior to the BCS allowed for rematches and made mistakes too. There were some odd rules in place that would allow #1 and #2 to play in different bowl games. Additionally, overtime did not exist and titles could be split.
Sure, but the paradigm was totally different. The national title really was "mythical". I'm not saying no one cared because that's not true, but people cared a lot more about winning their conference. That's something the BCS totally destroyed. for all of the talk of valuing the regular season, it devalued the ultimate regular season accomplishment.
College football is not one big league like the NFL. It is more a lose confederation of quasi-independent leagues. So, the champion of the SEC should play the champion of a different league to play for the mythical national championship. But more than anything, we need to return the value to conference championships, which has been eroding ever since Oregon got hosed in 2001 and Nebraska played for the national title despite not even winning its division.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:29 pm to Bmath
quote:
ND and Ohio State were the only two undefeated teams last year. Period. Bama got into the game last year because Ohio had a bowl ban. Face the facts: Your last two championships just aren't as great as you think they are. You have 12 others to gloat over so get over it.
Undefeated versus weak schedules. Neither Ohio State nor Notre Dame had a great win. Didn't the Stanford game end controversially? Wasn't there a questionable call against Pittsburgh that helped Notre Dame tie the game. Notre Dame doesn't even play in a conference.
You're assuming that I'm buying the "Bama dynasty" crap, but that's not the case. Ugh. I don't assume all LSU fans blindly support their team regardless of the truth.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:32 pm to Gardevoir
quote:
Undefeated versus weak schedules. Neither Ohio State nor Notre Dame had a great win.
Kinda like bama in 11? Plus the one home loss....
This post was edited on 7/30/13 at 4:34 pm
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:33 pm to im4LSU
quote:
And there it is folks. The patented "LSU didn't win, bama just didn't play well and lost it" response
All those errors weren't forced, so yeah.
What changed between 11/5/11 and 1/9/12 that gave LSU no chance to win the rematch?
Both games were played in the same season, i.e. the same teams, players, and coaches played in both games. Are you arguing that your defense and special teams actually played considerably worse than they did on 11/5/11? Or did Alabama's offense play better?
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:35 pm to Gardevoir
quote:
With sentiments like these, why do you even care about the title game? 21-0 >>> 42-14. Notre Dame backed their way to a #1 ranking because several other teams dropped a game. The ranking system is flawed beyond simple voter bias. It wasn't hard to tell that Notre Dame wasn't great. They struggled with several average and bad teams. Their one good win was Oklahoma, whom despite being given several weeks to prepare, lost even worse to Texas A&M.
None of that has anything, at all, to do with what occurred in 2011.
quote:
Systems prior to the BCS allowed for rematches and made mistakes too.
Again...you're arguing as if we were still not in the BCS era in 2011. We were.
quote:
1996 Florida lost to Florida State but blew them out in the rematch. Was this unfair to Florida State?
Without going back to look at the entire season and who was also at the top of the bowls, I'll say no...mostly due to the fact that while both teams had already played once, both teams were their conference's respective champs...not members of the same division within the same conference where one was the champ and was was the runner up in the division.
quote:
You weren't the first screwed over by uncontrollable factors, and you won't be the last.
That's comforting coming from a BAMA fan...
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:35 pm to Gardevoir
quote:
Are you arguing that your defense and special teams actually played considerably worse than they did on 11/5/11?
The play of the offense made play of the defense and special teams utterly irrelevant.
Bobbled snaps, a cardinal sin under handed interception, a missed wide open TD pass.
I'd say Alabama didn't force those.
This post was edited on 7/30/13 at 4:38 pm
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:35 pm to im4LSU
quote:
Kinda like bama in 11?
Yeah, Arkansas sucked. They truly did not deserve a Top 5 ranking.
I'm done discussing the BCS and the legitimacy of 1/9/12. I haven't convinced LSU fans of anything, so not much has been accomplished. It was nice to get some more perspectives on certain things though.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:36 pm to Gardevoir
quote:
Do you think Alabama's offense played to their potential on 11/5/11? It took LSU overtime to beat Alabama's B or C game despite your Special Teams and defense playing better.
Are we making excuses now? LSU actually got in the red zone, while Bama was trying 50 yd field goals.
quote:
LSU did not shite the bed.
I would argue that the coaches did. Lee had a better track record at winning games from behind. Ask UT and UF's 2010 teams about his clutch passing late in the game. To say that Lee couldn't have made a difference is irrelevant considering we will never know.
At least you acknowledge that LSU was not put away until late in the game.
Like I said it is what it is.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 4:37 pm to Gardevoir
quote:
All those errors weren't forced, so yeah.
LSU's defense stepping up to force 40+yd field goals is forcing mistakes.
Don't act like bama just gave that game away. You couldn't move the ball and were forced into tough scoring positions and didn't execute
quote:
Yeah, Arkansas sucked. They truly did not deserve a Top 5 ranking.
Were they top 5 after they got thumped in BR?
This post was edited on 7/30/13 at 4:46 pm
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