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Posted on 10/1/08 at 9:22 am to ThePoo
quote:
wanna guess why that poll doesnt matter to us?
Because Billingsly is usually thrown out as a high or low ranking?
Even if that's the case, at least it's the highest possible ranking, so no other high ranking in another computer will be thrown out.
Posted on 10/1/08 at 9:38 am to Priams Pride
quote:
I'm really pretty tired of hearing that the AP doesn't matter.
It doesn't. Now get some sleep if you're so tired.
quote:
The only difference between the AP and the BCS (in their current configurations) is that the BCS sponsors a game to be played between their #1 and #2. What makes this ranking system more legitimate?
You answered your own question right before you asked it. The BCS crowns a champion ON THE FIELD IN A GAME IN WHICH THE WINNER IS GUARANTEED THE CHAMPIONSHIP. The AP crowns a champion based on a vote of sportswriters who are not bound by anything that happens on the field. For example, one AP voter voted Oklahoma ahead of LSU in the final poll in 2003, AFTER WE HAD BEATEN THEM IN THE NC GAME! All AP voters could do the same thing if they wanted to, and award the national championship to the loser of the NC game, or worse, to a team that didn't even qualify to play in the NC game! That makes the AP poll inherently invalid and meaningless. The BCS, which awards its championship automatically to the winner of the championship game, is inherently more valid and legitimate.
quote:
Even beyond this fact, everyone knows that the coaches poll is a sham
All polls are, and most computer rankings systems are, too. Unfortunately, all parties involved have decided to use polls and computer rankings to choose the NC game participants. Is it worse than the NCAA tournament selection committees in other sports? Maybe, maybe not. But it's the method that has been chosen, and that's just how it is. Fortunately, the AP is not a part of it, so it has become irrelevant.
quote:
The AP is relevant
Only to those remaining football fans who are stupid enough to give credence to the opinions of sportswriters. I would have hoped that, due to the sheer volume of stupidity in the columns and broadcasts of these idiots, no one would still be stupid enough to follow their opinions blindly, but I guess I was being too optimistic, at least in your case.
Posted on 10/1/08 at 11:38 am to munchman
Polls dont matter in our case. None of them. The fact we are ranked 3rd, must play one of the two teams ranked ahead of us, our destiny is in our own hands.
If you attempt to figure a way we can lose one, even two games and still make it again, where we are ranked now still doesnt matter.
If we lose to Florida, then we will wind up around tenth, give or take a place or two depending on the score, prolly the same spot had we been ranked number 2. If we beat Florida and Bama, we're still second. (goodness forbidding a stumble at SC)
If you attempt to figure a way we can lose one, even two games and still make it again, where we are ranked now still doesnt matter.
If we lose to Florida, then we will wind up around tenth, give or take a place or two depending on the score, prolly the same spot had we been ranked number 2. If we beat Florida and Bama, we're still second. (goodness forbidding a stumble at SC)
Posted on 10/1/08 at 11:52 pm to SouthEndzoneTiger
quote:
College football has changed dramatically as far as crowning a champion. Gone are the days of a #1 undefeated team playing in the Rose Bowl while the #2 undefeated team plays in the Orange. Only to have people VOTE to determine which one is actually the champion. And it took alot to make things better. We may bitch at the system right now (no actual playoff) but it is a million times better than it was.
I understand all this. That's not the issue. All of us watch and read the sports media, and the AP is their poll. What's more important is that, although people may tear into the media and call them idiots, it is their job to know about college football. They are supposed to be the most expert of the experts (and most are ex-coaches and/or ex-players). Whether or not they really are experts is difficult to quantify, but that's neither here nor there. The AP and the BCS are both independent entities, and, as I said, the only reason either is relevant is that people believe them to be. Well, there are a great number of people (for better or for worse) who respect the opinions of the top sportswriters. Frankly, I respect their opinions also. After all, they watch a heck of alot more games than I have time to watch. That is what makes the AP relevant. Is it more relevant than the BCS? No. I never claimed it was. But it is the absolute most relevant non-BCS ranking, so much so that I think it is (to some degree) important to acquire both #1 rankings.
quote:
By the way, welcome to the rant, but your first post sucked.
This is downright insulting, despite your emoticon. I know that I am making a good point, and the fact that you will neither take me seriously nor read my post charitably is unfortunate. I agree with you that the BCS is the more important of the two, but that does not make the AP irrelevant.
Also, Nuts4LSU,
quote:
All polls are, and most computer rankings systems are, too. Unfortunately, all parties involved have decided to use polls and computer rankings to choose the NC game participants.
That's all well and good for them. But this still does not make the AP irrelevant. It only means that it is a secondary goal.
quote:
Only to those remaining football fans who are stupid enough to give credence to the opinions of sportswriters.
So who should I listen to? I can't watch even close to the number of games that they watch, and I don't have near the amount of football experience that they do. So who should I listen to? You? Maybe you think that I should come to my own conclusions as to who is the best team. And I do, but that decision involves the opinions of others.
The very fact that the AP is the media's poll means that it will never be irrelevant. They are the ones whose opinions get national coverage, and they won't let their opinions be irrelevant. I agree that it's absurd and unfortunate that they won't agree to the BCS rules. Nevertheless, if LSU doesn't win a crystal ball, I sure as heck will be happy with an AP#1 as a consolation prize. I don't blame the USC fans one bit in that respect.
This post was edited on 10/1/08 at 11:54 pm
Posted on 10/2/08 at 2:08 am to Priams Pride
quote:
although people may tear into the media and call them idiots, it is their job to know about college football.
That's your first mistake. Their job is not to know about college football. Their job is to get people to read their columns, watch or listen to their broadcasts, or hit their website. They don't need to know a damned thing about football to do that. All they have to do is say controversial things that get attention. Therefore, that's all they do. I have no idea who you are, but just because you are interested enough in LSU football to post on this board, I would bet you could beat 90% of sportswriters in this country in a college football quiz. I know for a fact I could. Ditto for pretty much anybody who posts here.
quote:
They are supposed to be the most expert of the experts (and most are ex-coaches and/or ex-players).
No, they're not. Almost all of the AP poll voters never played sports beyond the high school level. Many didn't even play in high school.
quote:
The AP and the BCS are both independent entities, and, as I said, the only reason either is relevant is that people believe them to be.
Except that the BCS has been signed off on by all the schools, conferences and bowls. Thus, it's a true championship established by a method controlled and agreed upon by the participating contestants. The AP poll is just the opinion of sportswriters who appointed themselves the arbiters of national championships back when the schools themselves abdicated their responsibility to do so. That people still believe the AP poll to be relevant says much more about the stupidity of some people than about the AP poll.
quote:
Well, there are a great number of people (for better or for worse) who respect the opinions of the top sportswriters.
Yes, there are some, but thankfully their numbers are dwindling. A person would have to be pretty stupid to respect the opinions of these dolts.
quote:
Frankly, I respect their opinions also.
Oops!
quote:
After all, they watch a heck of alot more games than I have time to watch.
No, they don't, unless you don't watch any. Most of them are beat writers covering a particular team. They spend the bulk of their time on that team. They listen for scores, read the writeups and maybe catch a couple of other games on TV. Just like the rest of us.
quote:
it is the absolute most relevant non-BCS ranking
No way. The coaching legends poll, or whatever they call it, is far more relevant. It's a poll of about 16 former coaches who spend all week analyzing tape of the games and breaking down each team, then get together and discuss the teams and rank them. If you want true expertise matched with the investment of time necessary to really evaluate the teams, that's your poll. It is by far the most valid and relevant poll out there.
And frankly, any poll that would allow one of its voters to vote Oklahoma over LSU in the final poll of 2003, even AFTER the Sugar Bowl, has no validity. Other AP voters that year publicly admitted that their votes were not based on their opinion of how good the teams were, but rather on other reasons to split the title. One said it was only fair that both teams win a NC, although he thought LSU was better. Another said he got emails from LSU fans that pissed him off, so he would not vote LSU #1 no matter what. This is how the AP rankings are determined. It's the furthest thing from a valid poll that you could possibly have.
quote:
That's all well and good for them. But this still does not make the AP irrelevant. It only means that it is a secondary goal.
AP does a college basketball poll, too. If they do one after the NCAA tournament and vote a team other than the tournament winner #1, would you consider that relevant? Would you think that school was justified in claiming a national championship? The fact that the NCAA tournament is sanctioned by the NCAA while the BCS is not is irrelevant. Both involve a championship format agreed upon by the schools competing for that championship. That the NCAA lets the bowls continue to play a major role for financial reasons has no impact on the legitimacy of the championship format established by the interested parties.
If Corso says Tulane is the best team in the country, that is irrelevant. He's stupid, he's wrong and his opinion is completely worthless. The AP poll is just 60 more idiots like him spouting their own nonsense.
quote:
So who should I listen to?
You don't have to listen to anybody. Who do you listen to to find out who won the Super Bowl? Who do you listen to to find out who won the World Series? Who do you listen to to find out who won the NCAA basketball tournament? You don't have to wait for someone else to tell you who the national champion is. There's a CHAMPIONSHIP GAME that determines that. Watch that game, and you know who the champion is.
quote:
Nevertheless, if LSU doesn't win a crystal ball, I sure as heck will be happy with an AP#1 as a consolation prize. I don't blame the USC fans one bit in that respect.
Well, then go ahead and celebrate. Terry Donahue, former UCLA coach, is now a sports commentator for one of the networks. After the Auburn game, he said LSU was the best team in the country. That's every bit as relevant and valid as if we had been voted #1 in the final AP poll, so WHOO HOO! Back to back national championships!!!!!
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