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Message
re: Forced change in offense???
Posted on 12/16/09 at 8:47 am to ForeLSU
Posted on 12/16/09 at 8:47 am to ForeLSU
I disagree with an earlier point in the thread, I think the team is more built for a pro-set right now. Big receivers, big backs, good tight end. Les likes to create match up problems with numbers on passing downs, which creates protection problems. IMO, our top 3 receivers this year were match up problems by themselves. I think we would have been more effective with 3 receivers plus a safety valve, and keep 7 in to block.
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This, plus the comment about having a Tebow type who is durable and who sees the field well - without that type QB, the spread has limitations against good SEC defenses.
My belief is that Miles decided to shift to this type offense to lure spread-type players like Russell Shepard, who don't necessarily fit as well in a traditional "pro-set" offense. Plus, with 4 years of the Tebow era, it was the "sexy" thing to do.
I have been preaching going back to the more traditional sets all year long - if your Oline cannot protect the QB in a spread set, then you cannot stretch the field vertically - the end result is alot of "horizontal movement" along the line of scrimmage..... lots of wasted motion.
Our best games of the year (like the Bama game) is when we committed to the run and let Scott do his damage, kept 1-2 backs in tight to protect the QB, and allowed a 2-3 WR set to stretch the defense. We play this type offense against other opponents, we would've been much more consistent, more ball control, and would've looked much more like the dominating physical teams of LSU's past.
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This, plus the comment about having a Tebow type who is durable and who sees the field well - without that type QB, the spread has limitations against good SEC defenses.
My belief is that Miles decided to shift to this type offense to lure spread-type players like Russell Shepard, who don't necessarily fit as well in a traditional "pro-set" offense. Plus, with 4 years of the Tebow era, it was the "sexy" thing to do.
I have been preaching going back to the more traditional sets all year long - if your Oline cannot protect the QB in a spread set, then you cannot stretch the field vertically - the end result is alot of "horizontal movement" along the line of scrimmage..... lots of wasted motion.
Our best games of the year (like the Bama game) is when we committed to the run and let Scott do his damage, kept 1-2 backs in tight to protect the QB, and allowed a 2-3 WR set to stretch the defense. We play this type offense against other opponents, we would've been much more consistent, more ball control, and would've looked much more like the dominating physical teams of LSU's past.
1
Posted on 12/16/09 at 8:52 am to ForeLSU
quote:
I don't know...my opinion is if Crowton needs help with strategy then he needs to go. He's the highest paid OC in the SEC. It's possible that McCarthy was not the right receivers coach to teach the receivers what they needed to do on certain plays and they figure the Crowton/BG combo will work much better together.
He will still be the one to draw the plays but he has never been the type of coach to pull the player aside and teach him what motions to make. I think this is what BG can do. He will teach the QB how to time his passes and the WR's how to run their routes.
quote:
Les did say that Crowton observed Fl practice and was really impressed with the way BG worked with the receivers.
I thought he and Wilson were not cleared to coach the players yet.
Posted on 12/16/09 at 8:54 am to coldhotwings
quote:
I thought he and Wilson were not cleared to coach the players yet.
Crowton saw him at a Florida practice...
Posted on 12/16/09 at 9:01 am to coldhotwings
yes! it's obvious to me that we are shifting our focus from pro-set to spread. some of that may have been forced due to our reworked OL. we have been running some spread formations since crowton arrived. the shift may not be permanent as i think we plan on running multiple formations. IMHO, what we need to learn is to not run the same damn play out of the same formation when a particular personnel group comes in. we need to keep the opposing D off balance a little. when RS comes in, the D keys on him.
Posted on 12/16/09 at 9:02 am to TigerStuckinOkieland
quote:
Our best games of the year (like the Bama game) is when we committed to the run and let Scott do his damage, kept 1-2 backs in tight to protect the QB, and allowed a 2-3 WR set to stretch the defense. We play this type offense against other opponents, we would've been much more consistent, more ball control, and would've looked much more like the dominating physical teams of LSU's past.
Yes, I noticed this also but why does the coaching staff keep shifting back to what doesn't work. A lot of folks here say that Miles/Crowton is too stupid to go with what works. Can someone with reason honestly say that they really are that stupid? Or is there maybe a method to their madness.
Posted on 12/16/09 at 9:06 am to Coach in Waiting
quote:
the team that won the conference runs an old fashioned offense.
while true, if we had stuck soley with that type of offense we would not have won 9 games. our blocking simply wasn't good enough. hell, not only was miles not going for it on 4th and 1; we couldn't get 3rd and 1's either. i am certain the coach miles is/was 10X for frustrated than us fans. the spread alone will not win NC's! florida's spread success was made possible because of Tebow being a fullback and percy harvin. to win NC's you have to have a running game and a passing game whether it's the spread or pro-set.
Posted on 12/16/09 at 9:16 am to Coach in Waiting
quote:
You can't concede the run between the tackles. That is why you must get rid of the spread interior linemen and run power football.
Wow, a rare find. One of a few who actually knows what he's typing about.
I cringed when "The Wizard" was anounced as new OC. I figured it wouldn't be long before we were attempting to run a fluffy finesse offense in the SEC.
The O-line weights are going back up some next year, but I don't think there's enough emphasis on it looking at Offense commits by position.
Posted on 12/16/09 at 9:25 am to LSU GrandDad
I admire what Malzahn is doing with the Auburn offense. He balances a spread attack with power running that the school is known for. The fanbase is buying into it despite where they place in the conference and the kids they recruit are buying into it hence their excellent recruiting class they are putting together despite playing second fiddle to Bama.
Posted on 12/16/09 at 9:29 am to Mayhawman
quote:
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You can't concede the run between the tackles. That is why you must get rid of the spread interior linemen and run power football.
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This - you won't win championships, for sure.
Insofar as the comments that "we couldn't make it happen this year, I'm willing to concede that the OLine was not at its best this year. But, I cannot help but think that much of this had to do with the continual "shift" in blocking schemes as we rotated from play-to-play from "spread blocking" to "power blocking" - too much for our Oline to handle consistently. When we did commit to the run, we had success many times - we just abandoned it, though, in order to "show a different look". My opinion of "showing a different look" is to hit your TE or RB on a screen or hot route -or- throw some deeper balls to our tall, physical WR's. Or, roll your QB out of the pocket to give him more time to get the ball to his receivers. None of this was utilized to keep the defense off-balance with any consistency this year.
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You can't concede the run between the tackles. That is why you must get rid of the spread interior linemen and run power football.
_________________________________________________
This - you won't win championships, for sure.
Insofar as the comments that "we couldn't make it happen this year, I'm willing to concede that the OLine was not at its best this year. But, I cannot help but think that much of this had to do with the continual "shift" in blocking schemes as we rotated from play-to-play from "spread blocking" to "power blocking" - too much for our Oline to handle consistently. When we did commit to the run, we had success many times - we just abandoned it, though, in order to "show a different look". My opinion of "showing a different look" is to hit your TE or RB on a screen or hot route -or- throw some deeper balls to our tall, physical WR's. Or, roll your QB out of the pocket to give him more time to get the ball to his receivers. None of this was utilized to keep the defense off-balance with any consistency this year.
Posted on 12/16/09 at 9:37 am to LSU GrandDad
quote:
while true, if we had stuck soley with that type of offense we would not have won 9 games. our blocking simply wasn't good enough.
I'm not sure that's totally the case, assuming the offense was called like McElwain called it. They did a great job with motion to pull linebackers and safeties out of plays.
Posted on 12/16/09 at 9:38 am to TigerStuckinOkieland
The lack of big powerful interior linemen may be b/c of the lapse in a recruiting class. Everyone knows about the class of o-linemen that didn't exist due to attrition. The coaching staff had to play an interior line consisting of younger smaller guys. Hopefully these guys mature to what the line is supposed to be at before the start of the new season.
Posted on 12/16/09 at 10:38 am to coldhotwings
quote:
The lack of big powerful interior linemen may be b/c of the lapse in a recruiting class
Yea the '05 13 commit year was bleak
The year Tbob 250lb C, signed (07?) I remember 2 or 3 other O-linemen signed that were 250 to 260.
And another year before or after there were a couple more lightweights. How do you put 40lbs on a guy and expect him to perform?
I think GC had a spread scheme going, but Miles maybe rethunk put his foot down because the weights have come back up lately on commits. Just a guess.
Posted on 12/16/09 at 10:50 am to Mayhawman
I was listening to the ESPN college football podcast with Ivan Maisel and Beano Cook this morning. Beano was absolutely right when he said there are 2 main reasons on why the SEC is the most dominant conference. Those 2 reasons are:
1) SEC country produces the best linemen on both sides of the ball.
2) racial integration
1) SEC country produces the best linemen on both sides of the ball.
2) racial integration
Posted on 12/16/09 at 11:56 am to coldhotwings
quote:
SEC country produces the best linemen on both sides of the ball.
And how did we expect to compete with boys among men? Physically speaking.
While LSU stocked up on 250-260lb those years, Bamma was signing 290-330 and a couple even bigger.
Posted on 12/16/09 at 4:07 pm to ForeLSU
quote:
It's possible that McCarthy was not the right receivers coach to teach the receivers what they needed to do on certain plays.
Yeah, like consistently catching the ball, running precise routes and blocking.
Oh boy, that McCarthy was an awesome recruiter though.
.......Posted on 12/16/09 at 11:47 pm to TigerBandAlumnus82
This type of transformational offense will destroy us with Crowton calling the plays. Against Arkansas, we ran the ball fine with Ridley up the middle, but then we would call zone reads out of the shotgun. This is an example of how Crowton's spread offense is ineffective.
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