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re: How were German armored divisions so much more elite than their US counterparts
Posted on 10/25/14 at 11:51 am to tbrig3211
Posted on 10/25/14 at 11:51 am to tbrig3211
The total (or near) lack of support by the West would have doomed the Soviets. I do not question that.
Would not opening the "Second Front" (France, via Overlord or an alternate like Calais, or what have you) have affected the outcome? Not in the least.
Had the West not done a lot of things they did, would it have altered the Nazis' logistics posture and prolonged their ability to stay in the fight? Absolutely. It might have doubled the Soviet's casualties, too.
But, the Red Army was coming for blood, period. After Stalingrad - the Germans simply didn't have the men. The guys and equipment they had were top shelf - which made the losses all the more crippling to them. Russians didn't have very many elite units - at least until late '44. They were mix and match - but they had 400+ divisions, so, you pick your poison - get overwhelmed from the front, left or right.
A simple mathematical equation is probably too simplistic. However, the math is unavoidable in this case.
Would not opening the "Second Front" (France, via Overlord or an alternate like Calais, or what have you) have affected the outcome? Not in the least.
Had the West not done a lot of things they did, would it have altered the Nazis' logistics posture and prolonged their ability to stay in the fight? Absolutely. It might have doubled the Soviet's casualties, too.
But, the Red Army was coming for blood, period. After Stalingrad - the Germans simply didn't have the men. The guys and equipment they had were top shelf - which made the losses all the more crippling to them. Russians didn't have very many elite units - at least until late '44. They were mix and match - but they had 400+ divisions, so, you pick your poison - get overwhelmed from the front, left or right.
A simple mathematical equation is probably too simplistic. However, the math is unavoidable in this case.
This post was edited on 10/25/14 at 11:53 am
1
Posted on 10/25/14 at 12:30 pm to Ace Midnight
I haven't read through this thread but I hope it's been pointed out that the Germans relied heavily on tank destroyers and assault guns to supplement their lack of tank production. The Sturmgeshutz III was the most produced German armored fighting platform, with the IV also reaching very high production numbers. The Panzer IV was likewise the most produced of the German tank platforms and it's modifications kept it on pace with Allied tank platforms like the T-34's and Shermans.
Obviously the Germans did not have the material resources or personal manpower of a nation like the United States or Soviet Union, much less a combination of the two plus the entire British Empire. They needed platforms that could outperform their enemies and maximize their limited manpower. That their research and development was over a decade behind the other powers when it began and was built from scratch and in secret beginning in 1933 makes it all the more impressive.
If you really consider the shear logistics of what Germany was facing against it, it becomes all the more remarkable the incredible and persistent resistance that was put up for so long.
Obviously the Germans did not have the material resources or personal manpower of a nation like the United States or Soviet Union, much less a combination of the two plus the entire British Empire. They needed platforms that could outperform their enemies and maximize their limited manpower. That their research and development was over a decade behind the other powers when it began and was built from scratch and in secret beginning in 1933 makes it all the more impressive.
If you really consider the shear logistics of what Germany was facing against it, it becomes all the more remarkable the incredible and persistent resistance that was put up for so long.
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