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re: Reflecting on USMNT's Copa Showing (WARNING: Wall of text)
Posted on 6/25/16 at 11:03 pm to cwil177
Posted on 6/25/16 at 11:03 pm to cwil177
Agreed.
But it is the truth. The Senior National Team Coach can only select from the players he is provided. The National Soccer staff can only scout the players that are playing. The true job of developing players fall on the local coaches. We must work to grow the culture of soccer on the professional and youth levels to an environment which allows players to realize their potential.
But it is the truth. The Senior National Team Coach can only select from the players he is provided. The National Soccer staff can only scout the players that are playing. The true job of developing players fall on the local coaches. We must work to grow the culture of soccer on the professional and youth levels to an environment which allows players to realize their potential.
1
Posted on 6/25/16 at 11:04 pm to cwil177
quote:
few Americans to ever have pull in the international soccer world. He's the ninth most senior member on the FIFA executive committee. I think we won't know if this hire was worth it until ten to fifteen years down the line, to see what he accomplished with regards to our youth development as technical director.
That's fair. I genuinely don't know the ins and outs of his job specifically, but always found it kind of strange that I've never heard people grumbling about his role in the current state of the team and development. Though that very well may be a "me" thing since I don't follow the news surrounding the team as closely as many others.
Posted on 6/25/16 at 11:11 pm to PhilipMarlowe
OP should have posted the rest of the article:
Given the sample sizes, this could be just a run of bad luck. But I don't think it is, and the underlying numbers explain why:
Steve Sampson’s teams played 450 minutes vs. teams in the Elo top 10, held the lead for 21.1% of the time
Bruce Arena’s teams played 810 minutes vs. teams in the Elo top 10, held the led for 22.2% of the time
Bob Bradley’s teams played 720 minutes vs. teams in the Elo top 10, held the lead for 25.5% of the time
Jurgen Klinsmann’s teams have played 570 mins vs. teams in the Elo top 10, and have held the lead for 1.6% of the time
That translates to holding the lead for nine minutes of action, which came from minutes 81-90 in the World Cup group stage against Portugal. Since that game -- which ended in a 2-2 draw -- the US have scored one goal (Julian Green's volley) in 480 minutes of action against Elo top 10 squads.
So it's not just that they're getting beat, it's that they're not as competitive as they used to be.
It extends out past the Elo top 10 to the Elo top 20 as well. Sampson took nine of the 33 points available to his team against top 20 squads in official competitions; Arena 17 of 45; Bradley 10 of 36. Klinsmann is now at 8 out of 30 points, which is the lowest percentage of the group despite fully 60% of his team's games against Elo top 20 squads coming at home -- most out of any coach in modern US history.
The good news? Six of Klinsmann's eight points vs. top 20 teams came in this tournament when they smashed Costa Rica (ranked 20th at the time, now 33rd), and then the win over Ecuador (14th, now 15th). By any measure, those were good wins. Performances and results like what the US got in those two games will be enough to get them into the 2018 World Cup.
But it's fair to question whether the US have gained any ground against Klinsmann's stated goal: Making the group compete "eye to eye" with the world's elite.
Under each of the previous three coaches, doing so was a regular occurrence. For the current regime, it seems only like a talking point.
Given the sample sizes, this could be just a run of bad luck. But I don't think it is, and the underlying numbers explain why:
Steve Sampson’s teams played 450 minutes vs. teams in the Elo top 10, held the lead for 21.1% of the time
Bruce Arena’s teams played 810 minutes vs. teams in the Elo top 10, held the led for 22.2% of the time
Bob Bradley’s teams played 720 minutes vs. teams in the Elo top 10, held the lead for 25.5% of the time
Jurgen Klinsmann’s teams have played 570 mins vs. teams in the Elo top 10, and have held the lead for 1.6% of the time
That translates to holding the lead for nine minutes of action, which came from minutes 81-90 in the World Cup group stage against Portugal. Since that game -- which ended in a 2-2 draw -- the US have scored one goal (Julian Green's volley) in 480 minutes of action against Elo top 10 squads.
So it's not just that they're getting beat, it's that they're not as competitive as they used to be.
It extends out past the Elo top 10 to the Elo top 20 as well. Sampson took nine of the 33 points available to his team against top 20 squads in official competitions; Arena 17 of 45; Bradley 10 of 36. Klinsmann is now at 8 out of 30 points, which is the lowest percentage of the group despite fully 60% of his team's games against Elo top 20 squads coming at home -- most out of any coach in modern US history.
The good news? Six of Klinsmann's eight points vs. top 20 teams came in this tournament when they smashed Costa Rica (ranked 20th at the time, now 33rd), and then the win over Ecuador (14th, now 15th). By any measure, those were good wins. Performances and results like what the US got in those two games will be enough to get them into the 2018 World Cup.
But it's fair to question whether the US have gained any ground against Klinsmann's stated goal: Making the group compete "eye to eye" with the world's elite.
Under each of the previous three coaches, doing so was a regular occurrence. For the current regime, it seems only like a talking point.
Posted on 6/25/16 at 11:22 pm to cwil177
Jurgen's probably is his lineups are conservative but his tactics are wildly liberal.
He will continue to call in hot garbage like Wondo, Orozco, etc. and not give extended runs to Pulisic/Nagbe.
But he will try and play with Argentina.
Pick one, goddammit. Either play conservatively and use experience, or fricking go for it and use the young players who can learn from it and be ready in 2018.
He will continue to call in hot garbage like Wondo, Orozco, etc. and not give extended runs to Pulisic/Nagbe.
But he will try and play with Argentina.
Pick one, goddammit. Either play conservatively and use experience, or fricking go for it and use the young players who can learn from it and be ready in 2018.
Posted on 6/25/16 at 11:25 pm to Tiger Phil
off topic, but can someone answer why the USMNT wears practically all black uniforms? Other teams wear unique colorful combinations of their national colors even in their dark uniforms while we wear drab all black. Surely someone could be more creative working with some combination of red white and/or blue.
Posted on 6/25/16 at 11:35 pm to boxcar willie
I just don't understand why we brought in Edgar Castillo (after Chandler got hurt) and then play two centerbacks at left back over him when Fabs wasn't manning the spot?
That thought process makes literally no sense at all. If you don't value a guy at all, why the frick call him in when there were other guys on the provisional roster that could have been of some use?
That thought process makes literally no sense at all. If you don't value a guy at all, why the frick call him in when there were other guys on the provisional roster that could have been of some use?
Posted on 6/26/16 at 7:25 am to cwil177
quote:
: under his tutelage we have failed to qualify for two olympics tournaments in a row
Thats not his fault
Olympic soccer is pretty pointless having an U-23 tournament that some soccer powers don't even care about. At that age they should be pushing for national team call ups and getting real first team minutes with their clubs.
quote:
and the confederations cup.
I just don't put much stock in that tournament. WC means much more.
This post was edited on 6/26/16 at 7:37 am
Posted on 6/26/16 at 9:22 am to StraightCashHomey21
I don't see the point of Sunni being a senior member of FIFA when it hasn't really done shite for us.
We constantly get dicked in major tourneys by bad calls. we haven't come close to hosting a world cup and keep losing to 2nd and 3rd world shite holes when it comes to hosting.
We constantly get dicked in major tourneys by bad calls. we haven't come close to hosting a world cup and keep losing to 2nd and 3rd world shite holes when it comes to hosting.
Posted on 6/26/16 at 9:32 am to boxcar willie
Because some overeducated Nike designer and a smooth talking salesman sold it.
Posted on 6/26/16 at 9:36 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Thats not his fault
Olympic soccer is pretty pointless having an U-23 tournament that some soccer powers don't even care about. At that age they should be pushing for national team call ups and getting real first team minutes with their clubs.
He picks the coaches. We had qualified for three of the previous four tournaments or something like that. It's invaluable experience for our young players. Sorry you don't see it that way.
quote:
I just don't put much stock in that tournament. WC means much more.
Of course you don't
World Cup will always be tops but CC is important for the experience. The Charlie Davies Jozy Altidore tandem heated up in that tournament and that back line started to gain some coherence. It produced amazing moments like beating Spain and almost beating Brazil in the final. I never want to miss out on a tournament that better prepares our players for the big dance.
Posted on 6/26/16 at 9:53 am to cwil177
quote:. We're already a little disadvantaged by playing most of our meaningful games against CONFACAF, so it's always good to play non friendliest against top quality sides. I rarely come away from a friendly with anything positive or negative.
It produced amazing moments like beating Spain and almost beating Brazil in the final. I never want to miss out on a tournament that better prepares our players for the big dance
Posted on 6/26/16 at 10:46 am to cwil177
quote:
He picks the coaches. We had qualified for three of the previous four tournaments or something like that. It's invaluable experience for our young players. Sorry you don't see it that way.
Its a pointless tournament that does not help youth development when its U-23 age level. No one gives a shite about Olympic soccer.
Things like the tolon tourny in france or the U-20 wc is a much better way to judge youth progression.
This post was edited on 6/26/16 at 10:48 am
Posted on 6/26/16 at 11:55 am to StraightCashHomey21
You're just wrong. It's valuable international experience for young players against good teams and gives them exposure to international scouts.
Posted on 6/26/16 at 11:57 am to cwil177
quote:
You're just wrong. It's valuable international experience for young players against good teams and gives them exposure to international scouts.
When players are pushing 23 years old the ship has sailed for the most part, sorry bro you are wrong.
They should be in the first team set up for the national team in some way shape or form. Most soccer powers don't give a shite about that tournament. The only reason Neymar is playing this time is bc its at home.
Posted on 6/26/16 at 12:07 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
When players are pushing 23 years old the ship has sailed for the most part, sorry bro you are wrong.
Posted on 6/26/16 at 12:08 pm to Sheep
Clearly you are lacking reading comprehension.
I said for the most part. There will always be late bloomers.
I said for the most part. There will always be late bloomers.
Posted on 6/26/16 at 12:10 pm to Sheep
He said "for the most part" and he's right.
They know what a player has to offer at 23 or 24. They are either top class or below it.
They know what a player has to offer at 23 or 24. They are either top class or below it.
Posted on 6/26/16 at 3:23 pm to jackwoods4
quote:
@PhilMQuinn Two development tournaments for the #USMNT since Brazil. Zero young players given a chance to prep for Russia. Shameful.
This I have a bit of a problem with. One of the best players in the tournament was Bobby Wood. He's not super young (23 yo), but younger than Nagbe whom for some reason gets counted as a young player at 25 (26 in 3 weeks). You also have John Brooks who will start every game at CB when called in and the introduction of some other mid 20s players like Birnbaum, Nagbe, and Zardes who'll likely get called up in most opportunities.
I don't feel like new guys get much of a chance under Jurgen, but it's not like he hasn't stuck with a couple of those younger players. I know it can be frustrating when players do well but don't always get the best response from Jurgen. There are several young players making an impact though, and that number will only rise as time passes.
This post was edited on 6/26/16 at 3:25 pm
Posted on 6/26/16 at 4:17 pm to StraightCashHomey21
The Confederations Cup is invaluable experience in my mind. It's a year before the tourney and you play several of the best teams in the world. On top of that, you play it in the country that you will spend a couple weeks the following year. Any time you play top teams, in a tournament setting, on a world stage, it's important.
Posted on 6/26/16 at 4:25 pm to LSUButt
Sure its good for some experience. But if you are banking on the confed cup as a spring board for the WC then there are underlying issues.
Clearly its a bigger deal for countries from less competitive federations.
Clearly its a bigger deal for countries from less competitive federations.
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