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Message
re: Reflecting on USMNT's Copa Showing (WARNING: Wall of text)
Posted on 6/25/16 at 9:40 pm to jackwoods4
Posted on 6/25/16 at 9:40 pm to jackwoods4
quote:
No doubt. I didn't want to just start a bunch of random guys and lose in the group stage. But it's disappointing when you could've brought a young striker to fill in for Wood during his suspension for a game. Or tonight we could've had Lichaj playing LB. Instead it was Orozco. I'm not saying Jurgen should just throw out a young, weak XI that can't compete. But he doesn't capitalize on opportunities, you know?
Morris instead of wondo, Williams or morales instead of Beckerman, Lichaj, Villafana, or some frick instead of orozco.
1
Posted on 6/25/16 at 9:41 pm to Broski
Posted on 6/25/16 at 9:42 pm to cwil177
quote:
The consistency during this tournament really helped the team
Absolutely. I was speaking to this in the in-game thread. I think this team could be a competitive bunch if they would get consistent playing time together. There were some missed passing opportunities that I feel more PT together would have definitely helped the players recognize. But I'm completely confident that Jurgen will frick that up and start toying around with a bunch of shite when they could be using matches to build up a solid team whose players are familiar and comfortable with one another.
Posted on 6/25/16 at 9:44 pm to TFS4E
quote:
I have a really bad feeling in my gut when I think about the future.
It's it because our young players' development is basically being left in the hands of their clubs? They certainly aren't playing for us or at the god damn olympics.
Posted on 6/25/16 at 9:46 pm to Tiger Phil
quote:
The problem is that we need players who are better technically.
No, that is A problem.
Getting out shot by powerhouses like fricking Haiti (and everybody else) in last year's Gold Cup is not a "players aren't skilled enough" problem.
When we had "skilled" players like Hejduk, Mastroeni, Clark, Ching, etc. in the team, it would take a GOOD CONCACAF team to push us around.
Posted on 6/25/16 at 9:47 pm to vuvuzela
quote:
His players hate his guts,
I'm sure some do, but I know there are guys on that team like Zardes and Wood and Wondo (
) who like him for giving them their chances. That said, I would love to hear Michael and Bob Bradley have a candid conversation about Jurgen. I bet that shite is pure gold.
This post was edited on 6/25/16 at 9:48 pm
Posted on 6/25/16 at 9:51 pm to americanoutlaw
I think that's a huge part. It's so easy to say, "well the future looks bright", but how easy is it to fall short of expectations. Injuries, disinterest, bad situations, lack of playing time, etc.
Also, I completely agree with the comment about technical players. I actually had that conversation with a soccer noob friend the other day. The problem with that, IMO, is you can't just go out a find technical players. So, the USA has a shift in training for youth (which seems to have begun), but how do you bridge the gap between now and 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now when it hopefully pays off? That's the bad feeling in my gut.
Also, I completely agree with the comment about technical players. I actually had that conversation with a soccer noob friend the other day. The problem with that, IMO, is you can't just go out a find technical players. So, the USA has a shift in training for youth (which seems to have begun), but how do you bridge the gap between now and 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now when it hopefully pays off? That's the bad feeling in my gut.
Posted on 6/25/16 at 9:52 pm to Sheep
I don't disagree with you, but I'm not sure I would include Ching in that list. The biggest take away for me is that we need to find a lb on the Hejduk level. Fabian is too good to be stuck at lb. I'm going to be pissed beyond belief if we play woods on the wing ever again. Woods is everything Altisore should have been. I agree with everyone els about Klinnsmann.
Posted on 6/25/16 at 9:55 pm to FunkasaurusReb
quote:
Woods is everything Altisore should have been.
I know altidore is hurt all the time, but he's 3rd all time in US goals. Show some god damn respect
Posted on 6/25/16 at 9:56 pm to cwil177
We just waste roster spots. It seems pretty evident Jurgen would've played with 10 men before Castillo and Kitchen saw the field. Wondo is a waste of space. We all know it. Orozco is useless. There are just four or five guys that essentially provide no value going forward in every 23. If he put guys who might play a role down the line in the squad instead, I'd be happy. I wouldn't mind him starting the old guard as much if I knew that yellow card accumulation meant Nagbe was starting. I wouldn't mind if he started Fabian Johnson out of position at LB as much if an injury to him meant Lichaj was getting a look. I love Wood getting minutes. But why is Wondo filling in for him when it could've been Stanford Messi?
ETA: But it's just sickening when you know the guys stepping in for missing players are Wondo, Beckerman and Zusi (I love Zusi and think he could maybe still have a role going forward, but the other two guys...*Ed Lover voice* C'MON SON)
ETA: But it's just sickening when you know the guys stepping in for missing players are Wondo, Beckerman and Zusi (I love Zusi and think he could maybe still have a role going forward, but the other two guys...*Ed Lover voice* C'MON SON)
This post was edited on 6/25/16 at 9:59 pm
Posted on 6/25/16 at 9:58 pm to jackwoods4
No reason this team couldn't have Danny williams, lichaj, morris, villafana, finley, nguyen....I'm sure we could all come up with some other names too
Posted on 6/25/16 at 9:58 pm to cwil177
Here's my last comment about "the players just aren't good enough":
quote:
Match: United States vs. Haiti
Date: July 11, 2009
Competition: CONCACAF Gold Cup – Group Stage
Venue: Gillette Stadium – Foxborough, Mass
Kickoff: 7 p.m. ET
Attendance: 24,137
Weather: 70 degrees, sunny
Scoring Summary: 1 2 F
USA 1 1 2
HAI 0 2 2
USA – Davy Arnaud (Stuart Holden) 6th minute
HAI – Vaniel Sirin (Leonel Saint-Preux) 46
HAI – Mones Chery 48
USA – Stuart Holden 92+
Lineups:
USA: 18-Luis Robles; 21-Brad Evans, 12-Jimmy Conrad (capt.), 14-Michael Parkhurst, 6-Jay Heaps; 20-Santino Quaranta (5-Kyle Beckerman, 63), 10-Stuart Holden, 15-Sam Cronin, 13-Colin Clark (11-Brian Ching, 76); 17-Kenny Cooper (9-Charlie Davies, 63), 22-Davy Arnaud
Subs not used: 1-Troy Perkins, 2-Heath Pearce, 3-Clarence Goodson, 7-Robbie Rogers
Head Coach: Bob Bradley
HAI: 18-Jean Dominique Zérphirin; 3-Frantz Gilles, 6-Frantz Bertin, 13-Pierre Bruny (capt.), 19-Vaniel Sirin; 15-Ednerson Raymond, 12-James Marcelin, 8-Judelin Aveska, 14-Mones Chery; 9-Leonel Saint-Preux (16-Markorel Sampeur 84), 11-Fabrice Noel (23-Abel Thermueus, 79)
Subs not used: 1- Peterson Ocennat, 4- Paulin Jean, 5- Lesly Fellinga, 10-Robin Jerome, 7-Brunel Fucien
Head Coach: Jairo Rios
Stats Summary: USA / HAI
Shots: 14 / 10
Shots on Goal: 4 / 7
Saves: 5 / 1
Corner Kicks: 8 / 4
Fouls: 15 / 10
Offside: 0 / 7
quote:
Match: U.S. Men’s National Team vs. Haiti
Date: July 10, 2015
Competition: 2015 CONCACAF Gold Cup; Group A
Venue: Gillette Stadium; Foxborough, Mass.
Kickoff: 8:30 p.m. ET
Attendance: 46,720
Weather: 75 degrees; Sunny
Scoring Summary: 1 2 F
USA 0 1 1
HAI 0 0 0
USA – Clint Dempsey (Gyasi Zardes) 47th minute
Lineups:
USA: 1-Brad Guzan; 16-Brad Evans, 3-Omar Gonzalez, 15-Tim Ream, 14-Greg Garza (23-Fabian Johnson, 67); 19-Graham Zusi, 4-Michael Bradley (capt.), 10-Mix Diskerud, 8-Clint Dempsey, 9-Aron Johannsson (5-Kyle Beckerman, 83), 17-Jozy Altidore (20-Gyasi Zardes, 46)
Subs Not Used: 12-Nick Rimando, 22-William Yarbrough; 2-DeAndre Yedlin, 6-John Brooks,7-Alfredo Morales,11-Alejandro Bedoya, 13-Ventura Alvarado,18-Chris Wondolowski, 21-Timmy Chandler
Head Coach: Jurgen Klinsmann
HAI: 1-Johny Sony Placide (capt.); 8-Reginal Goreux (22-Sony Norde, 83), 3- Mechack Jerome, 6-Frantz Bertin, 4-Kim Jaggy; 13-Kevin Lafrance, 16-Jean Marc Alexandre (15-Sebastian Thuriere, 71), 21-Jean Eudes Maurice (10-Jeff Louis, 67), 14-James Marcelin, 7-Wilde Donald Guerrier; 20-Duckens Nazon,
Subs Not Used: 2-Jean Sony Alcenat, 5-Jean Jacques Pierre, 9-Kervens Belfort, 11-Pascal Millien, 12-Steward Ceus, 17-Andrew Jean-Baptiste, 18-Judelin Aveska, 19-Bitielo Jean Jacques, 23-Ronald Elusma
Head coach: Marc Collat
Stats Summary: USA / HAI
Shots: 6 / 15
Shots on Goal: 2 / 4
Saves: 4 / 1
Corner Kicks: 3 / 3
Fouls: 13 / 14
Offside: 4 / 4
quote:
Match-up: USA vs. Argentina
Date: June 8, 2008
Competition: International Friendly
Venue: Giants Stadium – East Rutherford, New Jersey
Kickoff: 7:30 p.m. ET
Attendance: 78,682
Weather: Warm, 85 degrees
Scoring Summary:
1 2 F
USA 0 0 0
ARG 0 0 0
Lineups:
USA: 1-Tim Howard; 6-Steve Cherundolo, 22-Oguchi Onyewu (23-Jay DeMerit, 61), 5-Danny Califf, 15-Heath Pearce (7-Eddie Lewis, 78); 4-Michael Bradley (26-Maurice Edu, 46), 25-Pablo Mastroeni; 8-Clint Dempsey (19-Freddy Adu, 61), 10-Landon Donovan (capt.), 17-DaMarcus Beasley (2-Frankie Hejduk, 91+); 9-Eddie Johnson (12-Sacha Kljestan, 74)
Subs not used: 18-Brad Guzan
Head Coach: Bob Bradley
ARG: 1-Roberto Abbondanzieri; 3-Gonzalo Rodriguez, 4-Nicolas Burdisso (2-Martin Demichelis, 46), 6-Gabriel Heinze, 13-Pablo Zabaleta (8-Javier Zanetti, 77); 5-Fernando Gago, 7-Maximiliano Rodriguez (20-Fernando Cavenaghi, 74), 14-Javier Mascherano (capt.); 9-Julio Cruz (19-Lisandro Lopez, 64), 11-Sergio Aguero (15-Ever Banega, 88), 18-Lionel Messi (17-Jose Sosa, 46)
Subs not used: 12-Sergio Romero, 16-Jonas Gutierrez
Head Coach: Alfio Basile
Stats Summary: USA / ARG
Shots: 9 / 10
Shots on goal: 4 / 7
Saves: 7 / 5
Corner Kicks: 7 / 6
Fouls: 19 / 18
Offside: 3 / 2
quote:
Match: U.S. Men’s National Team vs. Argentina
Date: June 21, 2016
Competition: 2016 Copa America Centenario - Semifinals
Venue: NRG Stadium; Houston, Texas
Kickoff: 8 p.m. CT
Attendance: 70,858 (sellout)
Weather: 80 degrees; Partly cloudy
Scoring Summary: 1 2 F
USA 0 0 0
ECU 2 2 4
ARG – Ezequiel Lavezzi (Lionel Messi) 3rd minute
ARG – Lionel Messi 32
ARG – Gonzalo Higuain 50
ARG – Gonzalo Higuain (Lionel Messi) 86
Lineups:
USA: 1-Brad Guzan; 2-DeAndre Yedlin, 20-Geoff Cameron, 6-John Brooks, 23-Fabian Johnson; 19-Graham Zusi, 4-Michael Bradley (capt.), 15-Kyle Beckerman (3-Steve Birnbaum, 60), 9-Gyasi Zardes; 8-Clint Dempsey (10-Darlington Nagbe, 78), 18-Chris Wondolowski (17-Christian Pulisic, 46)
Subs not used: 5-Matt Besler, 12-Tim Howard, 14-Michael Orozco, 16-Perry Kitchen, 21-Edgar Castillo, 22-Ethan Horvath
Not available: 7-Bobby Wood, 11-Alejandro Bedoya , 13-Jermaine Jones
Head Coach: Jurgen Klinsmann
ARG: 1-Sergio Romero; 16-Marcos Rojo (15-Victor Cuesta, 84), 13-Ramiro Funes-Mori, 17-Nicolas Otamendi, 4-Gabriel Mercado; 8-Augusto Fernandez (6-Lucas Biglia, 59), 14-Javier Mascherano, 19-Ever Banega; 22-Ezequiel Lavezzi (18-Erik Lamela, 67), 9-Gonzalo Higuain, 10-Lionel Messi (capt.)
Subs not used: 2-Jonathan Maidana, 3-Facundo Roncaglia, 5-Matias Kranevitter, 7-Angel Di Maria, 11-Sergio Aguero, 12-Nahuel Guzman, 21-Javier Pastore, 23-Mariano Andujar
Not Available: 20-Nicolas Gaitan
Head Coach: Gerardo Martino
Stats Summary: USA / ARG
Shots: 0 / 14
Shots on Goal: 0 / 9
Saves: 5 / 0
Corner Kicks: 1 / 4
Fouls: 12 / 7
Offside: 2 / 9
Posted on 6/25/16 at 10:06 pm to Sheep
I always cry a little inside when I see Charlie Davies name on a US roster.
Posted on 6/25/16 at 10:17 pm to Dizz
Wood's ascendancy has made the Davies loss hurt a little less, but it still stings. That altidore Davies tandem had so much fricking swag.
Posted on 6/25/16 at 10:20 pm to cwil177
There's a Community style alternate timeline where davies is healthy and guiseppe rossi isn't a traitorous swine and we're scoring crazy amounts of goals.
Posted on 6/25/16 at 10:27 pm to jackwoods4
Amazing that this has gone two pages without a dumbass jumping in to make the point that the US will never be good at soccer until we get better athletes.
Posted on 6/25/16 at 10:30 pm to LuckyTiger
quote:
Amazing that this has gone two pages without a dumbass jumping in to make the point that the US will never be good at soccer until we get better athletes.
If someone made that point after watching Beckerman and wondo, I wouldn't argue with them
Posted on 6/25/16 at 10:36 pm to LuckyTiger
quote:. I had the argument with someone at the bar that claimed our team isn't athletic. Athletes isn't our problem. We have better athletes than 99% of the counties we play. She was a die hard Klinnsmann supporter, so I didn't put too much effort in it sorry for going a a small rant.
Amazing that this has gone two pages without a dumbass jumping in to make the point that the US will never be good at soccer until we get better athletes.
Posted on 6/25/16 at 10:55 pm to TFS4E
quote:
Also, I completely agree with the comment about technical players. I actually had that conversation with a soccer noob friend the other day. The problem with that, IMO, is you can't just go out a find technical players. So, the USA has a shift in training for youth (which seems to have begun), but how do you bridge the gap between now and 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now when it hopefully pays off? That's the bad feeling in my gut.
Soccer is growing. It's a slow, generational, process; and there are several nations that are far, far, far ahead of us.
And even if we do it right, there's no guarantee that we'll *ever* win a World Cup. The Netherlands, for instance, is very good at soccer and they've never won one.
So my advice is to enjoy the progress where it happens. But prepare yourself for many disappointments along the way.
And yes, Jurgen is an issue. But his tenure will end, and the true job of developing US Soccer falls on the youth club coaches...
Posted on 6/25/16 at 10:58 pm to Tiger Phil
That last line is like saying the players are responsible for tactics. There needs to be some direction and organization from above if we want our youth development to improve. Time will tell, as you said. We won't know if Jurgen's tenure as technical director will have been productive for another ten or fifteen years.
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