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Posted on 3/3/17 at 12:36 pm to Draconian Sanctions
-We have plenty of unskilled workers in this country, we dont need more
-We still have high unemployment. Plenty of those people unemployed could be doing unskilled work
-This country isnt a giant charity. How crappy people have it where they are coming from should have no impact on our immigration policy
-Immigrants should not get a single dime of taxpayer money. They should reimburse the state for use of public education. Want to help out immigrants...start a private organization
-We should only accept immigrants based on merit. Do they have skills that are in short supply here? Will they be productive residents? Will they learn English? If no to any of those questions, they dont get in.
-We still have high unemployment. Plenty of those people unemployed could be doing unskilled work
-This country isnt a giant charity. How crappy people have it where they are coming from should have no impact on our immigration policy
-Immigrants should not get a single dime of taxpayer money. They should reimburse the state for use of public education. Want to help out immigrants...start a private organization
-We should only accept immigrants based on merit. Do they have skills that are in short supply here? Will they be productive residents? Will they learn English? If no to any of those questions, they dont get in.
Posted on 3/3/17 at 12:37 pm to Draconian Sanctions
in my ideal world, there are open borders
however we live in reality. since we're like Europe in terms of welfare, i think we should have European-level immigration laws
we can't afford open immigration and must restrict it
however we live in reality. since we're like Europe in terms of welfare, i think we should have European-level immigration laws
we can't afford open immigration and must restrict it
Posted on 3/3/17 at 12:37 pm to Draconian Sanctions
I think The United States has a moral imperative to protect it's citizens, and they have failed to do so by encouraging open borders and sanctuary cities. I also think there is a HUGE social cost to illegal immigration. And I'd like to see us shut it down as soon as possible. Only a really, really dishonest liberal would portray legitimate concerns about illegal immigration as some form of racism. But I've given up expecting even a single liberal to be intellectually honest.
Posted on 3/3/17 at 12:39 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Not to hijack the thread, but to piggyback on it a little, I wonder when/why it became such a huge issue. Sure, it's always been an issue, but it seems like for a lot of people it has become THE issue. A lot of people state they voted for Trump because of his tough talk on immigration. I can't pinpoint a singular event that caused that.
Posted on 3/3/17 at 12:40 pm to the808bass
quote:
It's economically unsustainable to have a welfare state and de facto open southern borders. Just the cost of educating the children of illegals is into the billions for individual states. That's not sustainable long-term.
I don't believe you're going to see many direct challenges to your logically arrived at conclusion.
Posted on 3/3/17 at 12:40 pm to Wtodd
I agree.
My main point is we should allow more work visa's so they pay taxes and into the SSN.
If they overstay kick them out.
My main point is we should allow more work visa's so they pay taxes and into the SSN.
If they overstay kick them out.
Posted on 3/3/17 at 12:44 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Not to hijack the thread, but to piggyback on it a little, I wonder when/why it became such a huge issue. Sure, it's always been an issue, but it seems like for a lot of people it has become THE issue. A lot of people state they voted for Trump because of his tough talk on immigration. I can't pinpoint a singular event that caused that.
That's a great question. It doesn't even crack my top 5 personally. If I could I would happily give conservatives most of what they want on immigration in return for climate change or pentagon reform
Posted on 3/3/17 at 12:44 pm to The Spleen
quote:
I can't pinpoint a singular event that caused that.
That's because it is a developing issue and not one that happened immediately. The more the effects of mass immigration became apparent, the more pressing it became to address it in the minds of voters who put weight on it.
Posted on 3/3/17 at 12:44 pm to MizzouBS
quote:
My main point is we should allow more work visa's so they pay taxes and into the SSN.
Agree but no auto-citizenship for anyone.
quote:
If they overstay kick them out
Yep
Posted on 3/3/17 at 12:45 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
pentagon reform
DEAL
Posted on 3/3/17 at 12:46 pm to The Spleen
quote:
I can't pinpoint a singular event that caused that.
Kate Steinle's murder may have been that event.
Posted on 3/3/17 at 12:48 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
If I could I would happily give conservatives most of what they want on immigration in return for climate change or pentagon reform
Climate change reform? L O frickING L.
Posted on 3/3/17 at 12:48 pm to Draconian Sanctions
I am one of those super-globalist chamber of commerce types you often hear tale of, so I don't think your post is directed at me. That said:
- I think immigration is a net positive for the country.
- It increases productivity by both lowering labor costs and getting hard workers and just in general removing barriers to the free flow of labor (aka government intervention in the marketplace)
- I would rather immigrants come here then companies open up shop in other countries (off shoring).
- The legal immigration system is broken. It is designed to let people in to fill jobs while simultaneously protecting american jobs. It is trying to square a circle.
OTOH
-Because the system was broken we let a whole bunch of people stay here illegally. That is just dumb.
-Birthright citizenship is also dumb. That needs to be fixed.
So I would be OK with about 80-90% of the immigrants we have know, but make them legal. They would need a background check, health check, ability to master as least a few basic English phrases, and either a job or ability to demonstrate self-sufficiency. And no welfare for X years (and by welfare I mean TANF, foodstamps, EITC, and other direct aid. I don't count costs to local schools and other use of services). I mean X years because at some point after working and paying taxes they earn the right to it. I am thinking 10 years.
And if you are already here, some sort of additional penalty tax/fee (assuming you meet the health, crime requirements, etc) and you can stay.
TLDR;
I like immigrants, just want a way to make most of them legal (aka amnesty aka "shamnesty").
- I think immigration is a net positive for the country.
- It increases productivity by both lowering labor costs and getting hard workers and just in general removing barriers to the free flow of labor (aka government intervention in the marketplace)
- I would rather immigrants come here then companies open up shop in other countries (off shoring).
- The legal immigration system is broken. It is designed to let people in to fill jobs while simultaneously protecting american jobs. It is trying to square a circle.
OTOH
-Because the system was broken we let a whole bunch of people stay here illegally. That is just dumb.
-Birthright citizenship is also dumb. That needs to be fixed.
So I would be OK with about 80-90% of the immigrants we have know, but make them legal. They would need a background check, health check, ability to master as least a few basic English phrases, and either a job or ability to demonstrate self-sufficiency. And no welfare for X years (and by welfare I mean TANF, foodstamps, EITC, and other direct aid. I don't count costs to local schools and other use of services). I mean X years because at some point after working and paying taxes they earn the right to it. I am thinking 10 years.
And if you are already here, some sort of additional penalty tax/fee (assuming you meet the health, crime requirements, etc) and you can stay.
TLDR;
I like immigrants, just want a way to make most of them legal (aka amnesty aka "shamnesty").
This post was edited on 3/3/17 at 1:09 pm
Posted on 3/3/17 at 12:51 pm to HempHead
quote:
That's because it is a developing issue and not one that happened immediately.
Okay, singular event was probably not the right way to phrase it. But even looking at the progression of events over say that last 10-15 years, and there really hasn't been anything I would say has caused this recent furor over it. I guess maybe the economic downturn in 2008 and 2009 triggered some of it when Americans were out of work while illegals were still working. But by many measures the economy has improved since then.
Posted on 3/3/17 at 12:53 pm to Draconian Sanctions
My dad came her legally from a country in Africa on an education visa. He learned the language, never tried to force previous customs on anyone else, and supports American values. He met my mom while at LSU, they got married, and started a family. During that time he became a citizen. He works very hard, and makes 6 figures doing it. He leans left, which I don't agree with, but that's his right as a citizen of this country.
If he can come here and do it the right way and be as successful as he has been, so can anyone else.
If he can come here and do it the right way and be as successful as he has been, so can anyone else.
This post was edited on 3/3/17 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 3/3/17 at 12:53 pm to The Spleen
quote:
nd there really hasn't been anything I would say has caused this recent furor over it.
It may also be a case of an issue being downstream of a candidate - it became a discussion point because Trump made it a plank of his campaign, or at least presented his opinions on the matter in such a way that it spoke to his primary voters, who were otherwise going to vote based on something else.
Posted on 3/3/17 at 12:57 pm to Draconian Sanctions
The costs
They cant live here without assistance. So businesses are reaping profits, while I'm struggling to meet my tax obligations, to cover them
They cant live here without assistance. So businesses are reaping profits, while I'm struggling to meet my tax obligations, to cover them
Posted on 3/3/17 at 1:03 pm to Draconian Sanctions
I'm all for immigration that follows these guidelines:
1) It is done in accordance with our immigration laws
2) The people who immigrate are going to contribute economically and have the skills to quickly work their way into the middle class
3) The people who immigrate are willing to learn English and fully assimilate
1) It is done in accordance with our immigration laws
2) The people who immigrate are going to contribute economically and have the skills to quickly work their way into the middle class
3) The people who immigrate are willing to learn English and fully assimilate
Posted on 3/3/17 at 1:15 pm to HempHead
quote:
it became a discussion point because Trump made it a plank of his campaign
I guess that was the culmination, but there was a lot of backlash towards the Republicans in the Gang of Eight. I thought that was a very reasonable and humanitarian bill, but it was spun by some on the right as an amnesty bill. Trump just capitalized on that furor.
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