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Message
re: This Slate Abortion Article is Full of Interesting
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:14 am to Roger Klarvin
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:14 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
So do semen samples and medical viral vectors.
Not complete sets. That's the point - a person becomes a person when all of the genetic material is combined at conception.
That's simplistic, but, essentially true. As the father of identical twins, we all discuss how the girls, at least for the briefest moment of time, were once the same person. Not the same tumor, infection, benign mass, etc. The same person.
And it's true.
This post was edited on 10/14/14 at 9:15 am
1
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:16 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Gymnastics. I can demonstrate differences between a toddler and a 90 year old man.
I don't think you understand. A 4 week olds biology is largely equivalent to that of a 4 week old bat. This is vastly different from the metabolic differences in the young and old.
A 4 week old is not uniquely human.
quote:
Tap the brakes, Roger - do you even realize what you're saying? This is IDENTICAL to racial/genetic theories behind forced eugenics, Nazism, White Supremacy, etc., etc., etc.
It most certainly is not.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:18 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
That's simplistic, but, essentially true. As the father of identical twins, we all discuss how the girls, at least for the briefest moment of time, were once the same person. Not the same tumor, infection, benign mass, etc. The same person.
I disagree, your kids were once merely the same cell which split into two identical masses of cells. They then developed independently into identical human infants.
This post was edited on 10/14/14 at 9:19 am
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:19 am to OleWar
quote:
Having an abortion left me with a sense of what a great power it is to be able to give life but also a sense that I can trust myself to use it carefully.
Except thats not what you did. Had you been using it carefully, you wouldn't have gotten pregnant.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:20 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
A 4 week old is not uniquely human.
We just have fundamental disagreement, then.
If there is a sliding scale, is there any point, prior to the child breathing room air, where you, a hypothetical Emperor Roger Klarvin, master of the universe, would say, "Okay at X weeks, that's it. It's a child and we step in."?
If so, what is your X?
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:20 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
A 4 week olds biology is largely equivalent to that of a 4 week old bat
but a 4 week old bat will become a bat
a 4 week old fetus will become a human, that makes it unique, at-least from the bat.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:21 am to ballscaster
Roe passed because a bunch of doctors said "Look, all these poor indigent (mostly black) women were getting mutilated in back alleys." But now we have women's lib and all these options. A poor black women even in rural Mississippi can go to her health dept and get free condoms, or pills for like $10 a month. There's also been a cultural shift, poor blacks are pro-life as shite now, and they're proudly being fruitful and multiplying. So why are we keeping this around? It's a clinical sterilized version of an obsolete practice performed by the most desperate and destitute. It was never meant to be birth control.This post was edited on 10/14/14 at 9:22 am
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:23 am to catholictigerfan
quote:When twinkle meets eye?
When does human life begin?
If one believes in God, it is God's determination.
To get at this, some believers will quote Biblical Word - with annotated interpretation. Some believers will patiently admit that now we see through a veil dimly.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:24 am to Knight of Old
quote:
If one believes in God, it is God's determination.
yeah but that for many that is backed up by good sound science.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:28 am to Knight of Old
quote:
If one believes in God, it is God's determination.
For me its not even about that.
Abortion to me is a woman saying "I'm going to deny my child its existence because I was too selfish and lazy to take the proper precautions which are literally available everywhere and to everyone for fricking free."
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:30 am to genro
Good sermon. Solid rhetoric.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:36 am to ballscaster
You gonna dispute any of it?
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:36 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
One of the major problems I have with contraceptives is that it causes you to think that sex has no consequences, when you realize that it does, your immediate reaction is to hide it, get rid of it, etc.
No offense, but by definition your Catholicism binds you to this belief. If you say the Vatican is wrong here, they say you aren't catholic.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:38 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
No offense, but by definition your Catholicism binds you to this belief. If you say the Vatican is wrong here, they say you aren't catholic.
what
you have no idea how my Catholic Faith works.
I don't feel like trying to explain it to you.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:39 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
If there is a sliding scale, is there any point, prior to the child breathing room air, where you, a hypothetical Emperor Roger Klarvin, master of the universe, would say, "Okay at X weeks, that's it. It's a child and we step in."?
I don't think anyone can honestly answer this, thus the dilemma.
It's why my objections aren't rooted in when it becomes a true human.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:42 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
One of the major problems I have with contraceptives is that it causes you to think that sex has no consequences, when you realize that it does, your immediate reaction is to hide it, get rid of it, etc.
On the other extreme, I think that religions' way of teaching kids that sex is evil and wrong causes far more damage than contraceptives.
And I was raised southern Baptist. You can't get any more conservative than that.
Edit: I'm not disagreeing with the above, but both extremes result from not wanting to have real discussions about sex.
This post was edited on 10/14/14 at 9:44 am
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:45 am to catholictigerfan
I don't know anything about your faith. I know a lot about how the Catholic Church functions however.
Plenty of Catholics claim disagreement with church dogma, but the church considers itself infallible in the fields of morals and ethics and has an anathema placed on those who say the church is wrong on such matters. While not feasible to enforce with over a billion members, the church maintains that such people should not receive the Eucharist as they are not in full communion with the church.
For instance, as was noted by many leading Catholics, Nancy Pelosi commits a mortal sin every time she takes communion.
Plenty of Catholics claim disagreement with church dogma, but the church considers itself infallible in the fields of morals and ethics and has an anathema placed on those who say the church is wrong on such matters. While not feasible to enforce with over a billion members, the church maintains that such people should not receive the Eucharist as they are not in full communion with the church.
For instance, as was noted by many leading Catholics, Nancy Pelosi commits a mortal sin every time she takes communion.
This post was edited on 10/14/14 at 9:47 am
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:46 am to elprez00
quote:
On the other extreme, I think that religions' way of teaching kids that sex is evil and wrong causes far more damage than contraceptives.
And I was raised southern Baptist. You can't get any more conservative than that.
we don't teach sex is evil.
Sex is one of the deepest way to show love for your spouse. It is even a sign of the the love of God.
We have a problem when sex becomes only about pleasure, part of sex, we teach, is being open to the possibility of children. Contraceptives destroy this and I believe actually reduces the love of the act.
I don't want to turn this into a contraceptives debate I will leave it here.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:49 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
I don't want to turn this into a contraceptives debate I will leave it here.
Not what I was aiming towards either.
This post was edited on 10/14/14 at 9:50 am
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:54 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
I don't think anyone can honestly answer this, thus the dilemma.
It's why my objections aren't rooted in when it becomes a true human.
That is the fundamental question to be answered, are we ending the life of a human being or simply removing tissue. It cannot be avoided.
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