- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: This Slate Abortion Article is Full of Interesting
Posted on 10/14/14 at 8:57 am to Roger Klarvin
Posted on 10/14/14 at 8:57 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
I would agree that a fetus is not genuinely a human being up until a certain point.
The devil is in the details. When does a beagle fetus "become" a beagle?
What is that certain point for humans? And who would you have wanted to make the call for you?
If you're okay with your mom making the call, then abortion on demand should be fine. If you want man (and I mean man's law) to make it - well we're pretty undecided, particularly if you read all the legal gymnastics used to justify destroying human beings just days prior to birth.
Otherwise, this is still a tough, tough decision - and one I've chosen a particularly Darwinian track - but I can't pretend it's not homicide.
This post was edited on 10/14/14 at 8:59 am
1
Posted on 10/14/14 at 8:58 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
An abortion at 8 weeks cannot in good faith be called murder, though I find it morally disturbing.
i'm the same way
abortion isn't a topic that i've ever been dead set on, one way or another. it's very complicated and my opinions shift
that's kind of why i had to laugh at the article in the OP requiring strict dogma surrounding abortion to criticize nuanced views, when typically the meme is the opposite (left pushes for nuance and the right for black/white)
Posted on 10/14/14 at 8:59 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
that's kind of why i had to laugh at the article in the OP requiring strict dogma surrounding abortion to criticize nuanced views, when typically the meme is the opposite (left pushes for nuance and the right for black/white)
Rush has argued for decades that abortion is the liberal sacrament. There is a lot of truth to that.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 8:59 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
You're assuming away the problem. Either it's a human being or it isn't. If it isn't, as catholic says - have all the abortions you want.
This is too simplistic. Given that I can conclusively show differences in the base biology of a 4 week old vs a 28 week old, if we are going to call it a human we must then establish different degrees of humanity. A 4 week old is not as human as a 28 week old and that isn't debatable. The question is at what point is a fetus human enough to be considered equal to a newborn.
Personally, I skip all that and just say the idea of abortion for convenience troubles me and speaks poorly of our society.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:00 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
An abortion at 8 weeks cannot in good faith be called murder, though I find it morally disturbing.
how is it morally disturbing?
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:01 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Given that I can conclusively show differences in the base biology of a 4 week old vs a 28 week old
quote:
A 4 week old is not as human as a 28 week old and that isn't debatable.
do both the 4 week old and 28 week old have human DNA?
This post was edited on 10/14/14 at 9:02 am
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:03 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Personally, I skip all that and just say the idea of abortion for convenience troubles me and speaks poorly of our society.
I can agree with you on this point, if nothing else.
quote:
. Given that I can conclusively show differences in the base biology of a 4 week old vs a 28 week old
Gymnastics. I can demonstrate differences between a toddler and a 90 year old man.
quote:
if we are going to call it a human we must then establish different degrees of humanity. A 4 week old is not as human as a 28 week old and that isn't debatable.
Tap the brakes, Roger - do you even realize what you're saying? This is IDENTICAL to racial/genetic theories behind forced eugenics, Nazism, White Supremacy, etc., etc., etc.
This post was edited on 10/14/14 at 9:04 am
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:04 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
This is too simplistic
How
when you boil all of the arguments to it's core it comes down to one simple question.
When does human life begin?
For all pro-life people it is conception because at that point, there is a new human life.
for pro-choicers it depends, but there is no-one who would be for a killing of an innocent human being when it isn't necessary for the life of the women or self defense.
quote:
Given that I can conclusively show differences in the base biology of a 4 week old vs a 28 week old, if we are going to call it a human we must then establish different degrees of humanity.
I didn't see this base biology thing but there is a different "degree of humanity" between a 1 week old and a 24 year old. But most people think it is wrong to kill both, except for self defense.
This post was edited on 10/14/14 at 9:05 am
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:05 am to Ace Midnight
quote:This is how I know you haven't even read Roe. You aren't qualified to speak about this matter.
What is that certain point for humans?
quote:You're pretending a lot of things.
I can't pretend it's not homicide.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:06 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
and there is a lot of debate surrounding contraceptives and it's effectiveness. I can make arguments showing how a contraceptive mentality would actually lead to more abortions.
Yes I realize that 100% use of contraceptives 99% of the time will cause no abortions.
But how many people actually use contraceptives 100% of the time?
One of the major concerns I have with a contraceptive mentality is that sexual intercourse becomes pleasure only. As SFP said earlier in this thread, when you have sex know that this could possibly lead you to having a kid that you have to help raise. If you are using contraceptives you think you will never have a child, but if for some reason you end up becoming pregnant, instead of being something joyful and your happy about you think it is more like a illness that has to get rid of.
I could get into divorce and contraceptives, breast cancer, along with other things but that goes beyond the scope of this thread.
This entire post just serves to support the notion that the catholic mindset is counter productive to the minimization of abortions.
Wanting to outlaw both abortion and contraception is both detrimental to society and completely unfeasible in our society without putting the sexual revolution toothpaste back in the tube so to speak.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:08 am to ballscaster
quote:
This is how I know you haven't even read Roe. You aren't qualified to speak about this matter.
I don't give a crap what RVW said, it doesn't matter in this debate when you get to the core of it.
Practically all sane human beings believe that it is wrong to kill innocent human life. It is impossible for a fetus to be guilty of anything, other than putting his/her mother at risk of death. If the fetus is a human being, than it shouldn't be killed, if it isn't have as many abortions as you want.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:09 am to catholictigerfan
quote:Willful ignorance.
I don't give a crap what RVW said, it doesn't matter in this debate
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:09 am to ballscaster
quote:
This is how I know you haven't even read Roe. You aren't qualified to speak about this matter.
NOW, you're full of shite. The supreme court of the U.S. had ZERO scientists. They were making a legal judgment on a state's right to limit a medical procedure. The whole discussion of trimesters and viability are ludicrous gymastics to justify the abortion procedure itself.
"Trimester" is a term of convenience, a shorthand used by OBs and their patients. Human fetuses develop in fairly consistent, predictable ways, but with also significant variances from individual to individual. "Viability" is a term that largely describes the state of medical science.
So, a person isn't a person anymore if they're in a civilization that is incapable of sustaining his or her life?
I've read Roe several times. Maybe you should try to "educate" somebody else. Your attempted reading of me is way off.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:11 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
how is it morally disturbing?
It perpetuates a brand of selfishness that permeates through the rest of our society. It's just another component of the love for the moment "me" mindset.
Additionally, I like living and am grateful I was deprived of that chance before it ever began. True I would have never known, but I find it troubling. I would also find the needless abortion of cattle to be disturbing too however.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:12 am to Ace Midnight
quote:In that case, your memory serves you poorly. You asked a question that is specifically answered in the text of the ruling.
I've read Roe several times.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:12 am to Choctaw
quote:
do both the 4 week old and 28 week old have human DNA?
So do semen samples and medical viral vectors.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:12 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Rush has argued for decades that abortion is the liberal sacrament.
well...it's certainly the sacrement of the feminist-left. this article clearly displays why, also
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:12 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
This entire post just serves to support the notion that the catholic mindset is counter productive to the minimization of abortions.
Wanting to outlaw both abortion and contraception is both detrimental to society and completely unfeasible in our society without putting the sexual revolution toothpaste back in the tube so to speak.
ad hominin
but you don't address my post.
One of the major problems I have with contraceptives is that it causes you to think that sex has no consequences, when you realize that it does, your immediate reaction is to hide it, get rid of it, etc.
What is more healthy is to know what the possible consequences for doing certain acts.
If I drink 40 oz of beer I know that I shouldn't drive anywhere because of the consequences, and many times I stop drinking after a beer or two because I know how more may make me feel in the morning.
When you have sex you should keep in mind the possible consequences of doing so. If you understand that you may get pregnant or get a girl pregnant when you have sex it will change how you approach the situation. What contraceptives does is turn sex into pleasure only, and ignores the possible consequences, no contraceptive is perfect, sometimes it fails. If you are prepared for the possible consequences you will know how to react in a healthy way. But if you don't know how to properly react you will overreact.
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:13 am to SlowFlowPro
I am curious....does anyone know the Muslim view(s) on abortion?
Posted on 10/14/14 at 9:14 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
It perpetuates a brand of selfishness that permeates through the rest of our society. It's just another component of the love for the moment "me" mindset.
Additionally, I like living and am grateful I was deprived of that chance before it ever began. True I would have never known, but I find it troubling. I would also find the needless abortion of cattle to be disturbing too however.
ok I don't see how that would be such a big deal, but what ever floats your boat I guess.
Page 5 of 9
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News