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Message
re: Spanish speaking in the United States
Posted on 5/18/14 at 8:22 am to kingbob
Posted on 5/18/14 at 8:22 am to kingbob
quote:
In case you didn't know, the same thing did happen in the late 19th century. It took until the third generation for most of those immigrants to truly assimilate...just like what's happening now. Assimilation takes time.
So you don't notice any differences between the immigrant then and the immigration now? I'll give you some hints. The numbers are vastly different, and the population is coming from a neighbor rather than overseas, and that neighbor happens to have a historical claim to vast portions of US territory. Now, keep pretending these immigration patterns are exactly alike.
1
Posted on 5/18/14 at 8:38 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
So you don't notice any differences between the immigrant then and the immigration now? I'll give you some hints. The numbers are vastly different, and the population is coming from a neighbor rather than overseas, and that neighbor happens to have a historical claim to vast portions of US territory. Now, keep pretending these immigration patterns are exactly alike.
Then make a thread about it. This one's about language and he was absolutely correct. Even now it's not just Spanish. People come here from china or Korea and live in communities where they can speak their native language. They do out here anyway.
I agree that one difference is that Mexicans are coming in such numbers that they these types of communities are not just in big cities anymore. Lots of medium and small towns with huge foreign born populations.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 8:44 am to Vegas Bengal
quote:
I never understood why conservatives are always so uptight about shite like this. If it's not the war on Christmas, or saggy jeans or wearing a flag pin it's Spanish. Chill out. If I lived around Latinos and their language is take it as a chance to learn the language.
That's a good attitude although since you don't live around Hispanics I take it with a grain of salt. I think that most pro-amnesty, pro-immigration rights types usually live in large white communities and have the luxury of judging from a distance.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 8:45 am to Easy
First, are you the thread police? Second, I was following a portion of a conversation that had already started, so if you think the topic was derailed, you're telling the wrong person to start another thread. Third, I realize the thread is about language. Thanks. You do realize my discussing immigration patterns relates, directly, to langue usage, right?
Posted on 5/18/14 at 8:51 am to Easy
quote:
I think that most pro-amnesty, pro-immigration rights types usually live in large white communities and have the luxury of judging from a distance.
Either that ... or, they use a lot of Mexican labor.
They don't use English because they don't have to. A good many of them know English better than they let on. Makes it easier to use the "no comprende" card.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:01 am to LSUneaux
quote:
Are you annoyed by the increasingly Spanish presence of signage in America?
YES! As English speaking people the rest of the world wanted to learn in order to keep pace with English speaking countries. China is even teaching their kids English now. I feel like we are dumbing down in order to accommodate Spanish speaking people who are either too stupid to learn or are just leaches off of the USA. They have no pride in being here and actually being an American. They want to stay Latino but get all the benefits of living in a free English speaking country.
I have worked in several different foreign countries and with many nationalities, some hate us and some embrace us but they all feel they will gain more knowledge by learning English. Out of all the super power countries not one speaks Spanish.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 11:14 am to BeaumontBengal
quote:
Took care of a patient this morning who spoke no English at all. The nurse went to pick her up from the hospital room to take her to the preop holding area and her husband (who spoke English) asked her to make sure that someone who spoke Spanish was available to talk to her in preop. I did the best I could as I was the only one who spoke any Spanish working in the ORs this morning, Our interaction was not optimal, however. I'm sure he wanted us to hold up our day to hunt down a translator on a Saturday (impossible) to accommodate her.
This woman has had a child in the United States a month ago and had braces so she has had dental work as well. However, she had no insurance (which paying for her hospitalization/surgery is not even the issue here) and we, the healthcare providers, are the ones expected to go above and beyond to take care of her. Just another example of the frustrations of healthcare and the things making it more difficult to just do our job. Spanish is not a requirement of medical school last I checked.
A) You may be shocked to hear that they do have dental work, including braces, in every country in North and South America.
B) Do you really work at a hospital in Texas where no one speaks Spanish? Most hospitals have a phone number to call for interpreters. I don't think that offering the use of an interpreter for Spanish is really going "above and beyond."
C) Since the husband speaks English and Spanish, couldn't he have been scrubbed and allowed to go into pre-op? I know, above and beyond...
Posted on 5/18/14 at 11:49 am to LSUneaux
It doesn't really bother me. And it helps me to remember the Spanish I already know as well as become more bilingual.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 11:53 am to LSUneaux
I'm more pissed at what's happened to Cajun French in Louisiana over the years. I say we say F it, and put signs up in Cajun everywhere instead.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 12:40 pm to mmcgrath
A. The patient likely had the braces placed in the USA since she lives here. I know she had the baby in Galveston because I asked. The point is she seeks medical care in the USA and expects us to accommodate the fact that she speaks no English. She has made no efforts to even try and pick up a basic English vocabulary despite living here and beginning to raise a family here.
B. There's is no magic phone line where I work to just dial up a Spanish interpreter. I had that when I was at Vanderbilt for residency but not every community hospital has the resources a major teaching institution does. The interpreters employed by the hospital are not there on weekends. I don't know if they're even available on the weekends but if they were we would've had to call them in and delay a surgeon, an anesthesiologist, two scrub techs, an OR nurse, and a PACU nurse and wasted an hour of their time. They have other places to be and other patients to take care of. Wasting an extra hour of your day is not realistic when your time is valuable.
C. The husband couldn't come to the preop area because he had to take care of the 1 month old baby.
How many times do you get woken up in the wee hours of the morning to do your job, which requires putting yourself (and those dependent on you) at significant liability (often not even getting paid for your services)? Then on top of that be expected to know skills above and beyond what your job is? Spanish is not part of medical training. I'm not trained to be fluent in Spanish. I'm trained to take care of sick patients.
B. There's is no magic phone line where I work to just dial up a Spanish interpreter. I had that when I was at Vanderbilt for residency but not every community hospital has the resources a major teaching institution does. The interpreters employed by the hospital are not there on weekends. I don't know if they're even available on the weekends but if they were we would've had to call them in and delay a surgeon, an anesthesiologist, two scrub techs, an OR nurse, and a PACU nurse and wasted an hour of their time. They have other places to be and other patients to take care of. Wasting an extra hour of your day is not realistic when your time is valuable.
C. The husband couldn't come to the preop area because he had to take care of the 1 month old baby.
How many times do you get woken up in the wee hours of the morning to do your job, which requires putting yourself (and those dependent on you) at significant liability (often not even getting paid for your services)? Then on top of that be expected to know skills above and beyond what your job is? Spanish is not part of medical training. I'm not trained to be fluent in Spanish. I'm trained to take care of sick patients.
This post was edited on 5/18/14 at 12:42 pm
Posted on 5/18/14 at 12:44 pm to Paul Allen
quote:
No, I'm not a racist.
Some of you have been trained better than the seals at the zoo.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 12:54 pm to weagle99
If you go to another country to live or work you should need to know the language and customs there.
You should also respect and obey the laws. Need I say more?
You should also respect and obey the laws. Need I say more?
Posted on 5/18/14 at 12:58 pm to BeaumontBengal
quote:Clearly an assumption. You have no knowledge that she has been in the country more than a month. Also I would say that it is much more likely that she got any dental work done in a foreign country as it is much cheaper there and dentists don't work for free here. Even people born in the USA go to South and Central America for some medical treatments because it is that much cheaper.
A. The patient likely had the braces placed in the USA since she lives here. I know she had the baby in Galveston because I asked. The point is she seeks medical care in the USA and expects us to accommodate the fact that she speaks no English. She has made no efforts to even try and pick up a basic English vocabulary despite living here and beginning to raise a family here.
quote:A nurse couldn't take care of a baby for 30 minutes?
C. The husband couldn't come to the preop area because he had to take care of the 1 month old baby.
quote:Its not "magic" as you mention you had access to it in another hospital. And they have services that are cheaper than getting an interpreter to the hospital in person. What does your hospital do if someone is a tourist that speaks a language other than Spanish? Do you have an interpreter on call for every one?
B. There's is no magic phone line where I work to just dial up a Spanish interpreter.
quote:When I was younger, a lot. Not so much nowadays as I am in control of all the systems.
How many times do you get woken up in the wee hours of the morning to do your job, which requires putting yourself (and those dependent on you) at significant liability (often not even getting paid for your services)?
quote:All the time.
Then on top of that be expected to know skills above and beyond what your job is?
Posted on 5/18/14 at 1:07 pm to BeaumontBengal
quote:On top of what I just said, if you are that uncomfortable in the language then you SHOULDN'T try to be an interpreter. You are putting yourself and the community hospital at great liability. Not to mention endangering the welfare of the patients.
Spanish is not part of medical training. I'm not trained to be fluent in Spanish.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 1:08 pm to Vegas Bengal
quote:They forced success on you. Congrats!
My grandparents learned to read and write in French. I think it sucks that they forced English on us. Made us unique.
It is logarithmically more difficult to succeed if you cannot read, write and speak the language of your nation's business. In France, that's French. In the US, it's English.
There is massive disingenuity amongst dependency-brokers who ENCOURAGE Spanish speakers to be satisfied with their language and not learn ours. The motivation is anything but helpful to Hispanic immigrants.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 1:15 pm to mmcgrath
The patient told me she had all her prenatal care at Galveston as I was wondering if I could maybe find some old medical records to read through so I could take care of her appropriately. So I know she was here for her pregnancy - which is more than a month.
A nurse is not a babysitter. Why should they be asked to do this?
No a phone line is not magic but it's not free either. Why should the hospital be required to pay for an interpretation service?
You woke up at 3:30 AM to go work and didn't get paid? Were you a salaried employer? If so, you got paid. As a physician, I get paid for the cases I do, which may or may not get reimbursed. I am not salaried.
You were expected to use skills unrelated to your profession? Please provide examples. Speaking Spanish is not relevant to practicing medicine in the USA.
The sad thing is, the patient is not to blame. We continue to accommodate her , so why would she need to learn English?
A nurse is not a babysitter. Why should they be asked to do this?
No a phone line is not magic but it's not free either. Why should the hospital be required to pay for an interpretation service?
You woke up at 3:30 AM to go work and didn't get paid? Were you a salaried employer? If so, you got paid. As a physician, I get paid for the cases I do, which may or may not get reimbursed. I am not salaried.
You were expected to use skills unrelated to your profession? Please provide examples. Speaking Spanish is not relevant to practicing medicine in the USA.
The sad thing is, the patient is not to blame. We continue to accommodate her , so why would she need to learn English?
Posted on 5/18/14 at 1:16 pm to Easy
quote:
I think that it's similar. The immigrants back then would move to communities like Little Italy where they could speak their native language and their kids would grow up speaking both, but mainly English. Many people now talk about how their grandparents or great grandparents never spoke much English.
I think it i sorta bullshite how we did everything we could to push out french in Louisiana, including punishing school kids out in the country that spoke french in school, but now we are all suppose to learn spanish accommodate these people who are benefitting from this country.
My grandfather was first generation american, all he ever spoke was English. My other grandfather grew up speaking french at home, but was given an english first name, and forced to speak english in school.
Maybe we just aren't used to a new generation of immigrants, and this is how it has always been, but i see less assimilation other cultures.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 1:35 pm to BeaumontBengal
quote:to make sure that the patient gets adequate care. What happens when a single parent comes in with an injury or illness but also has an infant in hand?
A nurse is not a babysitter. Why should they be asked to do this?
quote:I guess they can use a physician who "kind of" knows Spanish instead... I would trust a qualified professional more when it comes to life or death.
No a phone line is not magic but it's not free either. Why should the hospital be required to pay for an interpretation service?
quote:I have done work as a contractor and an employee. I don't recall having to wake up at 3:30 am for support as a contractor, but I would have if needed.
You woke up at 3:30 AM to go work and didn't get paid? Were you a salaried employer? If so, you got paid. As a physician, I get paid for the cases I do, which may or may not get reimbursed. I am not salaried.
I take it that you have a contract with the hospital? I don't know about reimbursements on an individual basis, but I am sure you have weighed the positive vs negative benefits before signing that contract. You get paid well at times, and I guess at others you just bitch about the patients. BTW, what does any of that have to do about the language spoken by a patient?
This post was edited on 5/18/14 at 1:38 pm
Posted on 5/18/14 at 1:53 pm to mmcgrath
The patient and taking care of her is not the issue here. I know enough Spanish to ask what I absolutely need to know to take care of her effectively and safely. However, it's become almost expected that we pay for a service or take time to learn other languages in order to communicate with people while they don't take on any of this responsibility. It's the culture of continuing to accommodate people and letting them enjoy the benefits offered in the USA, but not requiring any responsibility on their part that's the issue here.
These would be great if resources were unlimited. However, they are not.
It doesn't. The language barrier makes an already frustrating situation even more so.
quote:
A nurse couldn't take care of a baby for 30 minutes?
quote:
hospitals have a phone number to call for interpreters
These would be great if resources were unlimited. However, they are not.
quote:
what does any of that have to do about the language spoken by a patient?
It doesn't. The language barrier makes an already frustrating situation even more so.
This post was edited on 5/18/14 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 5/18/14 at 6:31 pm to Apache
quote:
Apache
quote:
What a racist bastard you are.
I have learned that the person who screams racist is often the most racist person of them all. Congrats!!!
quote:
Spanish speaking in the United States
Yes, I find it annoying. If you want to live in the USA then put forth an effort to learn English.
This post was edited on 5/18/14 at 6:33 pm
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