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re: Snowden and Putin really throwing it down on us now.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 11:42 am to ShortyRob
Posted on 4/17/14 at 11:42 am to ShortyRob
this is true but you learn from history and the tactics they used to easily round people up. Also I'm not sure how well that would work in the US considering how vast our borders are. It might not be easy if you wait to the actual collapse but if you start to jump before hand then it wouldn't be so bad.
2
Posted on 4/17/14 at 11:45 am to heartbreakTiger
quote:
this is true but you learn from history and the tactics they used to easily round people up. Also I'm not sure how well that would work in the US considering how vast our borders are. It might not be easy if you wait to the actual collapse but if you start to jump before hand then it wouldn't be so bad.
If we were to fail now there would be no escape as we are the engine that runs the world's economy. Perhaps China will develop a middle class and this will change over time but that remains to be seen. I don't believe Russia will ever have a middle class as they never have in the existence of those people. They like Czars, communism, and dictators(Putin). They are a very subserviant people as long as the person calling the shots is a Ruskie.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 11:47 am to Oenophile Brah
quote:
True, poor choice of words. Certainly not "All" steps.
Prudent steps, and Mr. Snowden isn't the arbitor for the nations security. There were better methods to have a national discussion about the tools in place without having to completely reveal them.
His actions with Putin show his naivety in world affairs.
Nicely said. Succinct, and correct. It's become a situation where he's using the auspice of a divine mission to uncover America's wrongdoing against its citizens to cloud the facts that: 1) he needs to stay in the limelight to keep himself relevant (i.e. - feed his ego), and 2) he didn't reveal nearly as harsh or illegal machinations as he thought he would find .. so now he has to resort to publicly embarrassing the U.S. by rubbing elbows with its tyrant enemies and revealing anything he can, even if those revelations have nothing to do with domestic spying.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 11:59 am to Oenophile Brah
quote:
Terrible argument. You're asserting that any steps to reduce bad things are a waste of time because "bad things always happen?"
Do you have a lock on your house and car door? Alarm system?
You take all possible steps to protect yourself. If you (and Snowden) want to fight handicapped fine, but you don't get to make the decision for me.
Not at all what I am asserting. I am asserting that you don't go beyond legal documents and inherent rights, infringing upon the liberty of the people, to stop ALL OCCURRENCES of something that is reasonably and inevitably going to happen regardless of the steps you take. There are alternate ways to gain control of a majority of happenings before you jump in and take oppressive actions (which the NSA actions in question are absolutely oppressive in nature.)
My deadbolt and car alarm don't house any of my personal conversations or Personally Identifiable Information as addressed in the Privacy Act of 1974, another law that it is safe to assume is being violated because there is no way, with all the information they are "collecting" that they can label all of it properly.
And, yet again, no, I don't take all measures to protect myself. I take those measures that are legal and readily available for me to take. I could give two fricks less who you support in this debate, because that is exactly what this is, a debate. What we say to each other will have no bearing on the other's life. I am not forcing my opinion on anyone, I am expressing mine. A right that I am still (as of today, at least) free to exercise.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 12:08 pm to Rohan2Reed
quote:
If only al qaeda was interested in attacking our government and not our people. People are defending a guy who basically handed over our CIA playbook to islamic terrorists.
How did he do this? You full on believe the government propaganda? The same government that, with all of its spying on us, missed the Boston Marathon bombers even after Russia, our sworn enemy Russia, told us that we better watch them? Meh. You're better than that.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 12:11 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
missed the Boston Marathon bombers even after Russia, our sworn enemy Russia, told us that we better watch them?
Even better, after they spoke with him and then let him leave the country and come back
Posted on 4/17/14 at 12:18 pm to DByrd2
quote:
I am asserting that you don't go beyond legal documents and inherent rights, infringing upon the liberty of the people, to stop ALL OCCURRENCES of something that is reasonably and inevitably going to happen regardless of the steps you take.
I'm still waiting for someone to list the laws broken by these actions.
Also, who said these actions would stop "ALL OCCURANCES"? It's the government's duty to protect it's citizens using all legal means necessary. If our countrymen wish to change the laws to disallow currently legal action, then we have a process for that. It's not stealing classified information(Snowdedn swore to not disclose) and flee to share it with our enemies.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 12:32 pm to Oenophile Brah
quote:
I'm still waiting for someone to list the laws broken by these actions.
Also, who said these actions would stop "ALL OCCURANCES"? It's the government's duty to protect it's citizens using all legal means necessary. If our countrymen wish to change the laws to disallow currently legal action, then we have a process for that. It's not stealing classified information(Snowdedn swore to not disclose) and flee to share it with our enemies.
Well, if that's your standard, what can anyone say? You're apparently comfortable with any government action as long as the government tells you it's for your own good.
You must be happy, because those who agree with you seem to be dominating the discourse and imposing their will. I hope it works out for us all.
I don't like it. I don't believe it meshes well with the principles this country was founded on, and I will never be comfortable with the "papers please" type of government, but as I alluded to earlier, that ship has already sailed .
Posted on 4/17/14 at 12:34 pm to DanTiger
quote:
I do as well but this is an obvious propaganda piece meant to embarrass the United States and he seems to be happily participating.
I would be happy to participate as well. We need to be embarrassed over this issue as well as a few others.
It is this administration that is causing the shame, not Snow.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 12:35 pm to NoSaint
quote:
while i agree, doing it with putin not so much
He was not given much choice as to where he could go. It had to be someone that was not scared of the US. Had he been allowed to choose another country....
Posted on 4/17/14 at 12:37 pm to Rohan2Reed
quote:
Still don't understand how someone can go to bat for this fricking douche bag.
I understand. He is a hero.
He did a good thing but you are mad that he chose to go to the country that would allow him to stay there and not hand him over to the US (wow, things have changed)
Posted on 4/17/14 at 12:38 pm to Rohan2Reed
quote:
He hates America
Nope. That is why he blew the whistle. Well it is why I am glad he did.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 12:39 pm to Rohan2Reed
quote:
Fleeing to an enemy country
The 1980s have called and they want their foreign policy back.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 12:41 pm to DanTiger
quote:
I do as well but this is an obvious propaganda piece meant to embarrass the United States and he seems to be happily participating.
So you are mad that Snowden is "embarrassing" the United States by mentioning the reason he is exiled and being hunted down for exposing illegal activity by the United States against its citizens? Man that sounds like some arse backwards logic to me.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 12:43 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Well, if that's your standard, what can anyone say?
The laws that you claim have been trampled?
Where are the lawsuits, victims?
ETA:
quote:
You're apparently comfortable with any government action as long as the government tells you it's for your own good.
No, I make a case by case decision on the actions beign discussed. I'm not for any illegal action taking place.
This post was edited on 4/17/14 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 4/17/14 at 12:45 pm to Rohan2Reed
quote:
He just doesn't have the balls to pay for his actions with his life.
Wow. I guess you would.
I would not.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 12:52 pm to Rohan2Reed
quote:
so now he has to resort to publicly embarrassing the U.S. by rubbing elbows with its tyrant enemies and revealing anything he can, even if those revelations have nothing to do with domestic spying.
Russia is our enemy? Since when?
Posted on 4/17/14 at 12:53 pm to ChewyDante
quote:
So you are mad that Snowden is "embarrassing" the United States by mentioning the reason he is exiled and being hunted down for exposing illegal activity by the United States against its citizens? Man that sounds like some arse backwards logic to me.
Not once did I sy I was mad. I am dissapointed that he would appear in a Russian propaganda pice that was not meant to air in the United States. What benefit could this possibly have for the country we live in? This is obviously a vendetta he has against the U.S. now or he wants to remain in the spotlight and I believe it is not logical to hold either of those motives in high regard.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 12:57 pm to Oenophile Brah
quote:
Oenophile Brah
I am glad he broke the news that the government was spying on us. Were they breaking the law? I do not know nor care, it was wrong. What Sno did was right and good, even if illegal.
Our government embarrassed us when they acted in such a way that we could be embarrassed with a simple comparison between us and Russia.
Why are the sno haters not standing up to this comparison and owning it, declaring loudly and proudly that we are a better nation because of our spying on our own? Why is it an embarrassment?
Posted on 4/17/14 at 12:58 pm to Oenophile Brah
quote:
Where are the lawsuits, victims?
Umm... I don't know... Everywhere? Just because you agree with it doesn't mean you are not a victim of it.
As for the lawsuits, they go the same way that those people I referred to earlier did when Snowden notified his superiors and coworkers. Nobody wants a piece of the big bad scary government because they can RUIN you and your family for GENERATIONS.
Hell, look at the Bundy Ranch shite going on, along with other situatuions with the BLM(like along the Red River). Not the situations surounding them (i.e. the citizen stand-off. If the people constantly allow the government to do as it pleases regardless of the citizens inputs, the animal will never be controlled.
quote:
I'm not for any illegal action taking place
That doesn't align with what is happening vs what your opinion on the situation is. Laws ARE being violated. The government is picking and choosing where they want to enforce them, and where they want to enforce them tends to be only in situations where they stand to gain substantial power over the citizens.
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