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re: Powel Shooting footage
Posted on 8/22/14 at 9:29 pm to the808bass
Posted on 8/22/14 at 9:29 pm to the808bass
quote:
Cops can't have less rights than a civilian.
Don't put on the uniform if you can't handle the consequences.
They should be held to a MUCH higher standard than civilians. Period the fricking end.
I suppose that comes down to a difference of opinion on what the responsibilities of LEO's, but I just don't see how you can watch that video and support that.
I don't care if a Cop has a family to go home to, we all do. You know what you signed up for by putting on the badge.
quote:
The guy was less than 20 feet away, holding a knife, obviously unstable, closing fast and the cops had less than 1 second to make a decision. If you wouldn't have made the same decision with someone closing in on you like that, or closing in on your friend, you don't respect yourself.
You didn't watch the video. Closing fast? Less than one second? What?
Cops should be here to save lives, not take them. A man with a small knife SHOULD BE SO EASY to take down with two people who are supposedly 'trained' for situations like these.
Are they not trained in hand to hand combat? Two LEO's can't control a single arm on this guy? No Tazers? No Mace?
Unless he throws a one in a million slash across this guys jugular, while leaping 5 yards from that ledge, the cops would've been absolutely fricking fine.
Two bullets? Maybe.
Nine? No. fricking. Way.
This post was edited on 8/22/14 at 9:34 pm
2
Posted on 8/22/14 at 9:41 pm to tiderider
quote:
... someone may have mentioned it already, but he appears to look behind him at the guy in the red striped shirt, then moves to his left as if (imo) to avoid a bystander getting hurt
Great point, he does move to an area that's safest for everyone. In my opinion, this guy seems to have a death wish. I suppose some would rather die a somebody than live not known to the world......
Posted on 8/22/14 at 9:42 pm to Five0
quote:
An oldie but damn it is a goodie.
Cops were even fat back then - little 5'2", 125 pound Dan Inosanto could have crushed those cats even without a knife.
(Probably still could and Dan is pushing 80 now.)
Posted on 8/22/14 at 9:53 pm to Malik Agar
Did the cops have to shoot him? No, that was probably excessive.
That being said, the man literally asked the police the shoot him and then walked towards them very aggressively. I don't feel bad for him.
That being said, the man literally asked the police the shoot him and then walked towards them very aggressively. I don't feel bad for him.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 10:49 pm to trackfan
quote:
Your litmus test is the opposite of mine. I hold cops to a high standard than I do non-cops, not a lower standard. For example, if a homeowner caught someone breaking into the house, I would give him/her carte blanche to fire away regardless of whether or not the intruder has a weapon. However, if a cop catches someone breaking into a home, I think it would be wrong for him/her to shoot the intruder if he/she is unarmed.
That's not the same scenario. In this scenario, guy approaches with knife in a non-rational fashion while yelling "shoot me, MF." That's a green light to shoot him, MF. Civilian or cop. Now, personally, I might hop back into the car and drive off. But the cops can't do that. And even I, as a civilian, am under no duty to retreat. So, if it's legal for me, it has to be legal for the cop. That's just rational. And I don't like what policing has become.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 10:51 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
They should be held to a MUCH higher standard than civilians. Period the fricking end.
A much higher standard doesn't mean they don't have the same right to self defense. You can't have one set of rules for self defense for the public and not allow cops that same basic right of self-defense.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 10:55 pm to the808bass
I wouldn't prosecute them bc they didn't break the law. The guy was irrational, armed and started advancing again.
My issue is that this is not pretty typicAl. One could have used the teaser while the other kept the gun on him. They had other options. Legally, they weren't forced to use other options but I wish they would have at least tried.
My issue is that this is not pretty typicAl. One could have used the teaser while the other kept the gun on him. They had other options. Legally, they weren't forced to use other options but I wish they would have at least tried.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:08 pm to LSUGrrrl
quote:
My issue is that this is not pretty typicAl. One could have used the teaser while the other kept the gun on him. They had other options. Legally, they weren't forced to use other options but I wish they would have at least tried.
1). He was wearing layers of clothing. I think this is one of the reasons they didn't deploy a taser. And he was close to them and moving towards them. It's my understanding that this isn't an optimal situation for a taser.
2). Police generally suck at dealing with the mentally ill. If someone you love is mentally ill, and is not an immediate, serious threat to themselves or others, do not call 911. They will call the police and the police will kill them. Not all the time. But enough to make you not want them involved. Even if you're asking for an ambulance, the cops will come. Do not do it. Cops kill crazy people. It's just the way it is.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:10 pm to trackfan
quote:
Your litmus test is the opposite of mine. I hold cops to a high standard than I do non-cops, not a lower standard.
Funny, I give citizens the same benefits I give to co-workers under the same circumstances.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:25 pm to LSUGrrrl
quote:
My issue is that this is not pretty typicAl. One could have used the teaser while the other kept the gun on him. They had other options. Legally, they weren't forced to use other options but I wish they would have at least tried.
The reason the police probably didn't have the Tasers ready is because he had his hand in his pocket when they pulled up to the scene, which means they had to assume he had a gun. Also, remember that he started charging them less than 20 seconds after they arrived, which means that they didn't have as much time to process information and figure out that he was crazy like the bystanders and the storeowner did. If you watch the entire video, the bystanders didn't figure out he was crazy within 20 seconds, it took them at least two or three minutes before they began to suspect it.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:29 pm to the808bass
quote:
Do not do it. Cops kill crazy people. It's just the way it is.
This mentality is what I find so disturbing.
This country was not founded on deferring to and accepting the tyrannical status quo.
Just because the Cops are idiots, does not mean you, me or anyone else deserve to die regardless of whatever mental condition they may have.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:36 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
Just because the Cops are idiots,
What do you do?
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:50 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
Just because the Cops are idiots, does not mean you, me or anyone else deserve to die regardless of whatever mental condition they may have.
I agree. But I don't pretend a cop is wrong in every situation.
Posted on 8/23/14 at 12:01 am to trackfan
Valid points.
Also, didn't consider clothing layers.
Also, didn't consider clothing layers.
Posted on 8/23/14 at 7:04 am to the808bass
quote:
That's not the same scenario. In this scenario, guy approaches with knife in a non-rational fashion while yelling "shoot me, MF." That's a green light to shoot him, MF. Civilian or cop. Now, personally, I might hop back into the car and drive off. But the cops can't do that. And even I, as a civilian, am under no duty to retreat. So, if it's legal for me, it has to be legal for the cop. That's just rational. And I don't like what policing has become.
I understand what you're saying, and the fact that the cops don't have the option of leaving the scene definitely puts them in a different position than civilians. I feel sympathetic for the cops because the first inkling that they would have had that this guy was a mental case trying to commit suicide was when he started begging them to shoot him, but that was only a few second before he started approaching them.
I doubt that anyone feels good about this - the bystanders because they didn't intervene to save a person who they knew was mentally ill, and the cops because they killed a mentally ill person who probably was no harm to anyone but himself - but hindsight is 20/20.
Posted on 8/23/14 at 6:24 pm to trackfan
quote:
Having said this, I wonder if police departments have a procedure to follow when dealing with people whom they know are trying to commit suicide by cop.
Yes they do and most are very similar to this - attempt to diffuse the situation, make sure bystanders are not in danger, make sure you are in one piece when your shift ends.
For the tough guy Winston - how many times have you been in that type of situation.
Posted on 8/23/14 at 6:25 pm to SirWinston
quote:
I'm not arguing whether or not this is an accepted truism amongst gun nuts, military types, and the cops.. but it shouldn't be. It's outdated and wrong
You have got to be trolling, no one is this freaking stupid.
Posted on 8/23/14 at 6:29 pm to Malik Agar
For those that think that the police could have used any form of non-lethal force to resolve this, I give you a simple challenge. Take your choice of self defense (firearm, tazer, etc) and face off against this individual. Same exact circumstances. Same amount of information. Same amount of time to decide.
And tell me how it works out for you.
And tell me how it works out for you.
Posted on 8/23/14 at 7:17 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
And tell me how it works out for you.
Most of the people in this thread would piss themselves under a lot less stress.
There are a whole lot of hard asses in the world of internet bravado and second guessing. Probably only second to expert college football coaches we will be dealing with this time next week.
Posted on 8/23/14 at 7:38 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
For those that think that the police could have used any form of non-lethal force to resolve this, I give you a simple challenge. Take your choice of self defense (firearm, tazer, etc) and face off against this individual. Same exact circumstances. Same amount of information. Same amount of time to decide.
And tell me how it works out for you.
But but but...you oughta to be able shot him in the leg from 50 feet out while the perp is running at you full speed high on meth with a knife in his hand...
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