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re: Do you believe that the United States was founded as a Christian Nation?
Posted on 9/16/14 at 11:35 pm to darkhorse
Posted on 9/16/14 at 11:35 pm to darkhorse
quote:
This is simply a false statement that is being "preached" to combat Christianity
Those poor oppressed super-majority Christians.
The vast majority of American Christians would publically forsake belief in a nanosecond if they experienced the legitimate religious persecution that Christians in other pars of the world see every day. You have it better here than any Christian at any point in history, all things considered.
quote:
Without a doubt it was.
So much so that the founders themselves said it wasn't.
Wait...
4
Posted on 9/16/14 at 11:46 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Those poor oppressed super-majority Christians.
In most situation in today's America... you are right.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 12:04 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
So much so that the founders themselves said it wasn't.
Yes and no. The Founders didn't conceive of an areligious government. That's pretty obvious by Washington's actual Presidency. Painting them as secularists when the word "secular" didn't even exist is a bridge too far.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 12:19 am to darkhorse
quote:
In most situation in today's America... you are right
I was a Christian for over 20 years and never once experienced anything I would describe as oppression or discrimination.
No Christian has ever had it as easy the modern American Christian. The fact that people in the media call you a homophobe for speaking out against homosexuality on TV doesn't make you oppressed, sorry. When 70% of the population agrees with you to some degree and the majority of the rest don't care what you believe, oppression shouldn't be in your vocabulary.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 12:22 am to the808bass
quote:
The Founders didn't conceive of an areligious government.
The founders also didn't conceive of the abolition of slaves, voting rights for women and air conditioning.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 12:23 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
False
The first bill passed by congress was an order for Bibles to be printed for use in schools.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 12:27 am to Roger Klarvin
You wasn't much of a christian, since you evidently never knew the Holy Spirit / God's presence in your life.
By the way you brainwashed fool, you don't have a clue whst I, nor any other person would do when persecuted, saying you do makes you a fool.
Most people wjo proclaim to be christians aren't really, which is why Christ said few will find the way.
But you pretending to know any mans heart is stupid. You spent @) years pretending to be a Christian and you don't know God.
LOL.
By the way you brainwashed fool, you don't have a clue whst I, nor any other person would do when persecuted, saying you do makes you a fool.
Most people wjo proclaim to be christians aren't really, which is why Christ said few will find the way.
But you pretending to know any mans heart is stupid. You spent @) years pretending to be a Christian and you don't know God.
LOL.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 12:33 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The founders also didn't conceive of the abolition of slaves, voting rights for women and air conditioning.
Always cute. And often irrelevant. We give you klarvin!!
Posted on 9/17/14 at 12:38 am to S.E.C. Crazy
quote:
You wasn't much of a Christian
Maybe, maybe not. I obviously cant know how sincerely others truly believe relative to myself but I thought I believed very deeply. I prayed every day, went to church, studied the Bible, felt God's presence, saw prayers answered, etc. One thing I do know is that I knew more then and still know more now than most Christians I talk about this stuff with. It's semi-rare that I meet one who has actually read the good book cover to cover, let alone more than once.
quote:
since you evidently never knew the Holy Spirit / God's presence in your life.
Obviously I agree now, given that I don't believe any such thing actually exists. At the time I very much believed I felt his presence though. The experience was all very real to me.
quote:
By the way you brainwashed fool, you don't have a clue whst I, nor any other person would do when persecuted, saying you do makes you a fool.
If Peter couldn't withstand the threat of death, I don't give the average cultural Christian in America much of a shot. People start needing a little more than faith when there's a gun to their head.
quote:
Most people wjo proclaim to be christians aren't really, which is why Christ said few will find the way.
Agreed, but that's not really relevant to the discussion of a Christian government.
quote:
But you pretending to know any mans heart is stupid.
I just know people. True conviction forsaking all else exists, but it's pretty rare. Our biology is usually stronger than our faith.
quote:
You spent @) years pretending to be a Christian and you don't know God.
I cant fathom someone consciously doing such a thing, what a wasted existence.
Just based on your posting history, you have a lot of hatred pent up in that little Christian soul of yours. Seems contrary to the belief you claim, but whatever.
This post was edited on 9/17/14 at 12:41 am
Posted on 9/17/14 at 12:39 am to Roger Klarvin
pre-mature rapture
This post was edited on 9/17/14 at 1:01 am
Posted on 9/17/14 at 12:58 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The vast majority of American Christians would publically forsake belief in a nanosecond if they experienced the legitimate religious persecution that Christians in other pars of the world see every day. You have it better here than any Christian at any point in history, all things considered.
The vast majority of Sunday Church goers in huge Churches where showing up is part of the social status just to be seen, yes.
There is a reason the bible only says a small percentage will be 'supernaturally' protected. They see the TRUTH. The Be-headings, persecution, rise-and-fall of nations, has been predicted and predicated for thousands of years. The rise-and-fall of these nations has happened over and over, and over.
It will happen, again just as predicted, just as predicated.
Whether you believe in religion, faith, science or nothing. You can't logically deny that there is something consistently driving our simple lives, in an eternal universe that we have no freakin clue how it absolutely came into existence, that may have no beginning, or no end, is just some sort of happenstance. We don't know that much about the Earth, considering, and it's just a pup.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 1:07 am to 2close2Gainesville
I've come to grips with the reality that life may very well ultimately be meaningless and the conscious awareness of our plight is just an accident of evolution. One day billions of years from now the Earth will be swallowed by an expanding Sun and not one single thing we ever enjoyed, fought for or argued about will matter.
I mean, is there any objective reason to believe that there is anything to life apart from the worth we subjectively derive from it? I certainly haven't come across it yet if so. We assume that animals live and die everyday largely without lasting significance, why should we be any different just because we are aware of our existence?
In the end, the very fact that I'm here and able to think about this is so wild and amazing to me that it overrides the impending insignificance of it all. In some ways it is probably better this way, the idea of an eternal existence where we can ponder our faults as a species even after death seems awful in many ways. If you live long, everyone reaches the point where they've just seen all they need to see of human existence. Eternal consciousness, even in paradise, seems like torture to me.
I mean, is there any objective reason to believe that there is anything to life apart from the worth we subjectively derive from it? I certainly haven't come across it yet if so. We assume that animals live and die everyday largely without lasting significance, why should we be any different just because we are aware of our existence?
In the end, the very fact that I'm here and able to think about this is so wild and amazing to me that it overrides the impending insignificance of it all. In some ways it is probably better this way, the idea of an eternal existence where we can ponder our faults as a species even after death seems awful in many ways. If you live long, everyone reaches the point where they've just seen all they need to see of human existence. Eternal consciousness, even in paradise, seems like torture to me.
This post was edited on 9/17/14 at 1:11 am
Posted on 9/17/14 at 1:11 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
By the 18th century, all of Europe, Russia, much of western Asia and Africa and the European colonies in the Americas were using the Gregorian designation.
My God, youre ignorant
The British empire did not adopt the Gregorian calendar until 1752. They also did not use AD as an official dating of their documents. From the tea act of 1773:
quote:
WHEREAS by an act, made in the twelfth year of his present Majesty's reign
So in choosing the wording of the constitution the founders were acknowledging Lordship of Christ, and no longer his majesty. They weren't just following British traditions.
And just an FYI, for future use:
quote:
1752, at this point in history the Gregorian Calendar was still a Christian device, prompted by, and designed around, religious festivals. While western Europe was predominantly Christian, large parts of central and eastern Europe were under Muslim rule. Consequently, these countries had no intention, or over-riding religious need, to change
1582 - Most Catholic nations
1873 - Japan
1875 - Egypt
1896 - Korea
1912 - China
1926 - Turkey
Countries in 1776, using the AD designation were recognizing their Christian heritage, not some worldwide acknowledgement
So yes, the founders deemed this nation a Christian nation.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 1:18 am to League Champs
quote:
1752
quote:
18th century
quote:
So in choosing the wording of the constitution the founders were acknowledging Lordship of Christ, and no longer his majesty. They weren't just following British traditions.
quote:
Countries in 1776, using the AD designation were recognizing their Christian heritage, not some worldwide acknowledgement
So yes, the founders deemed this nation a Christian nation.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 1:27 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
In the end, the very fact that I'm here and able to think about this is so wild and amazing to me that it overrides the impending insignificance of it all.
Completely understand, we are insignificant in the grand justice of it all.
quote:
I mean, is there any objective reason to believe that there is anything to life apart from the worth we subjectively derive from it? I certainly haven't come across it yet if so.
Only faith, that there is a some other existence just than this life on earth, that you just happened to born on.
I happen to think this is just an existence on another plane, a chance to redeem yourself, build your character, prepare yourself for something else.
Even if I am completely, wrong. Which is as much a possibility as any. I still try to continue to live my life as a good person, and I fail, all the time, but I do it for myself. I see injustice, I see hurt, I see unspeakable things that I think "How could He let such things happen?"
I can't change anything, all I can be is the best person I can be, and not hurt, but help others, I think that goes a long ways with some, but is dangerous with others.
quote:
Eternal consciousness, even in paradise, seems like torture to me.
I don't see it like that. If you are already miserable, (not saying you are) then I could see why you might think that way.
This post was edited on 9/17/14 at 1:33 am
Posted on 9/17/14 at 1:28 am to Roger Klarvin
You know Klarvin, I never thought of you as stupid. Mostly misguided maybe, but not stupid. Until now.
The 18th century lasted from January 1, 1701 to December 31, 1800, in the Gregorian calendar.
The 18th century lasted from January 1, 1701 to December 31, 1800, in the Gregorian calendar.
This post was edited on 9/17/14 at 1:34 am
Posted on 9/17/14 at 1:42 am to VaBamaMan
quote:
The 18th century lasted from January 1, 1701 to December 31, 1800, in the Gregorian calendar.
Yes, that's the point. He attempted to refute the claim that most of Europe was using the Gregorian Calendar in the 18th century by saying England adopted the calendar in 1752.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 3:00 am to mouton
Questions:
Can you be a Christian in name only? Or must your actions match what you claim?
Is rape, murder, stealing, oppression, etc principles of Christianity?
If so, then yes. Those upstanding gentlemen "founded" this uninhabited land with Jesus Christ squarely on their minds.
Can you be a Christian in name only? Or must your actions match what you claim?
Is rape, murder, stealing, oppression, etc principles of Christianity?
If so, then yes. Those upstanding gentlemen "founded" this uninhabited land with Jesus Christ squarely on their minds.
This post was edited on 9/17/14 at 3:04 am
Posted on 9/17/14 at 3:28 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Yes, that's the point. He attempted to refute the claim that most of Europe was using the Gregorian Calendar in the 18th century by saying England adopted the calendar in 1752.
Don't try that. If that were the case you wouldn't have done this.
quote:
1752.
quote:
18th century
followed by a Gif.
Those two lines and gif does not even come close to implying your supposed point. They do in fact imply you were attempting to make fun of, and degrade, him for arguing dates while he was simultaneously saying 1752 occurred within the 18th century. His points regarding dates, universal acceptance, phrasing used, and what it all means was not wrong.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 4:55 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:At first, no. But eventually he was crucified for his faith in the resurrection.
If Peter couldn't withstand the threat of death,
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