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Started By
Message
re: Christian Artists Could Be Fined, Jailed for Refusing to Make Gay Wedding Cards
Posted on 12/7/16 at 4:21 pm to FooManChoo
Posted on 12/7/16 at 4:21 pm to FooManChoo
quote:(Who are you trying to convince?)
I don't think about homosexuals at all when I'm not engaging in a discussion like this one or don't have them in eyesight on television.
quote:Not what I'm talking about. Equal treatment and due process are constitutional rights. That prevents the states from using a person's sex/gender as a qualification for signing a marriage certificate.
The right to gay cakes and cards is not in the Constitution
quote:A person has this inalienable right. A business has this right if the state says it does; for now, that isn't the case.
freedom of religious belief and expression is.
quote:This is not in the BOR.
BOR will uphold the rights of business owners to operate their businesses without violating their consciences.
1
Posted on 12/7/16 at 4:23 pm to dcbl
quote:Running a business and the practicing of a religion are not to be conflated. They are separate things. Conflating the two so that you can violate the rights of others will not work.
it's actually written into the Constitution that the gub-mint shall not infringe on my ability to practice my religion
quote:No, and that isn't what I'm arguing.
can you maybe link up where in the Constitution that Nancies are guaranteed to purchase anyone's creative expression?
Posted on 12/7/16 at 5:33 pm to ballscaster
quote:No one. This is a discussion forum and I'm having a discussion. I made this statement in response to you. Unless you suffer from a reading comprehension problem or are just continuing to troll, you should understand this.
(Who are you trying to convince?)
quote:There are limits to equal treatment and due process since those don't apply in every possible situation. The definition of marriage is important here and I strongly disagree with the SCOTUS' ruling on the subject. It would be nice to get that overturned but I doubt it will happen. The damage has been done. That's in regards to gay marriage, though. Cakes and Cards are a different matter as no one has a right to a cake or card and businesses should be able to choose how they operate and who they serve, especially in regards to religious convictions, which are specifically protected.
Not what I'm talking about. Equal treatment and due process are constitutional rights. That prevents the states from using a person's sex/gender as a qualification for signing a marriage certificate.
quote:And that's why discussion is needed. That's also why justices need to be appointed who are activists.
A person has this inalienable right. A business has this right if the state says it does; for now, that isn't the case.
quote:The BOR are the first 10 amendments to the Constitution. Religious liberty is protected by the 1st of these.
This is not in the BOR.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 6:30 pm to FooManChoo
quote:Protected.
Religious liberty
quote:Not protected.
the rights of business owners to operate their businesses without violating their consciences.
Posted on 12/7/16 at 7:35 pm to dcbl
Haven't had time to read the whole thread.
My take:
Business should not be forced to celebrate gay weddings. They are an occasion.
Serve everybody? Ok. Serve every occasion? No way.
Gay person wants a birthday card ? Cool.
Straight person wants a happy abortion card? No.
Black person wants a merry Christmas card ? Of course
Christian mom wants a happy divorce card? No.
Now some will say marriage is marriage and can't be separate from gay marriage. I disagree completely.
My take:
Business should not be forced to celebrate gay weddings. They are an occasion.
Serve everybody? Ok. Serve every occasion? No way.
Gay person wants a birthday card ? Cool.
Straight person wants a happy abortion card? No.
Black person wants a merry Christmas card ? Of course
Christian mom wants a happy divorce card? No.
Now some will say marriage is marriage and can't be separate from gay marriage. I disagree completely.
Posted on 12/8/16 at 11:42 am to ballscaster
What is silly is you forcing celebration of controversial occasions.
Trying to legislate celebration.
Think about that
Trying to legislate celebration.
Think about that
Posted on 12/8/16 at 12:16 pm to ballscaster
quote:The Hobby Lobby decision allowed for commercial exemption based on religious belief. While the ruling was limited in scope, it shows the possibility of future rulings where businesses can claim religious liberty against government mandates.
Not protected.
Point being that just because you run a business doesn't mean you should have to give up all of your religious beliefs and convictions.
Posted on 12/8/16 at 12:17 pm to crazyatthecamp
quote:Made up.
What is silly is you forcing celebration of controversial occasions.
Posted on 12/8/16 at 12:18 pm to FooManChoo
quote:Nobody ever said otherwise.
Point being that just because you run a business doesn't mean you should have to give up all of your religious beliefs and convictions.
Posted on 12/8/16 at 12:27 pm to ballscaster
quote:Actually a lot of people are saying otherwise. A lot of people are saying that if you run a business that is open to the public, you should leave your religious beliefs at home and provide service to anyone and everyone "equally" regardless of how you feel about them or what they are requesting.
Nobody ever said otherwise.
Posted on 12/8/16 at 12:32 pm to FooManChoo
quote:Nobody is saying that.
A lot of people are saying that if you run a business that is open to the public, you should leave your religious beliefs at home
Posted on 12/8/16 at 12:38 pm to dcbl
quote:
Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it isn't to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it.
How come I never hear of Muslim business owners having to deal with this shite.
Posted on 12/8/16 at 12:43 pm to alphaandomega
quote:Maybe they follow the law.
How come I never hear of Muslim business owners having to deal with this shite.
In another thread it was shown that American Muslims are more comfortable with marriage equality than evangelical Christians are.
This post was edited on 12/8/16 at 12:44 pm
Posted on 12/8/16 at 12:52 pm to alphaandomega
quote:
How come I never hear of Muslim business owners having to deal with this shite.
Because the checkout person at the local convenience store or the nearest Boost Mobile telephone store doesn't care about the customer enough to find out if they are gay or not?
Posted on 12/8/16 at 1:35 pm to ballscaster
quote:
quote:
How come I never hear of Muslim business owners having to deal with this shite.
Maybe they follow the law.
In another thread it was shown that American Muslims are more comfortable with marriage equality than evangelical Christians are.
Is that before or after they toss them off a rooftop?
Posted on 12/8/16 at 1:38 pm to alphaandomega
quote:What an insanely stupid and ignorant response.
Is that before or after they toss them off a rooftop?
Posted on 12/8/16 at 1:44 pm to ballscaster
Is the govt going to monitor all card companies to insure the equality of this measure if enforced.
On the real note here, why is it that these folks keep trying to make Christians do things for them. What is it they seek? Christians do not believe in their chosen life style and they know this. Why the surge to force people to do their wants and needs when they can easily get someone of the same belief system to do it?
On the real note here, why is it that these folks keep trying to make Christians do things for them. What is it they seek? Christians do not believe in their chosen life style and they know this. Why the surge to force people to do their wants and needs when they can easily get someone of the same belief system to do it?
This post was edited on 12/8/16 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 12/8/16 at 2:05 pm to ballscaster
quote:The fact that several Christian-owned businesses have been fined and even driven out of business because they brought their religion to work (specifically in regards to gay marriage) is evidence to the contrary. A lot of people are cool with religion until it gets in the way of what someone else wants to do, and then they tell the business owner to leave it out or pay the legal consequences.
Nobody is saying that.
It's correction that is needed from the SCOTUS.
This post was edited on 12/8/16 at 2:19 pm
Posted on 12/8/16 at 3:11 pm to The First Cut
Thank you for the straightforward answer sir. I understand this premise, but what if it is a very old ruling or just a really bad one. That is when it bothers me. Why keep using it as a standard? Seems like it can be a flawed way of doing business.
Anyway, thanks again.
Anyway, thanks again.
Posted on 12/8/16 at 4:56 pm to FooManChoo
quote:Ahem--Broke the law.
The fact that several Christian-owned businesses have been fined and even driven out of business because they brought their religion to work
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