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Message
re: Update on my Mom's nightstand gun thread from a while back.
Posted on 5/11/16 at 2:43 pm to baldona
Posted on 5/11/16 at 2:43 pm to baldona
quote:
IMO it's laughable to suggest a .357 or bigger gun or round for a 64 year old lady with little to no gun experience. Get her a .38 or .22 revolver.
Why? 357 magnum is simply a longer, higher pressure 38 special. A gun chambered in 357 magnum also has the added benefit of being able to shoot light 38s.
You seem to think that small gun translates to less recoil. The exact opposite is true - the lighter the gun, the more recoil it will have. That's why everyone who has suggested a full sized 357 is on-point. It might be heavy but it will have much less felt recoil than a fire-breathing snubby.
quote:
It's more likely she hurts herself shooting too big of a round because she is scared than ever needing the gun.
I don't know what you mean by "too big" because 357 magnum is the exact same diameter as a 9mm, but moving much faster. If the gun is heavy, it will have very light recoil. Why suggest something tiny that is much harder to shoot?
And no one has suggested she get something she's scared of. Honestly, there are much greater chances of her being afraid of the snubby after she shoots it. I teach new shooters all the time and virtually 100% of the time they prefer shooting something larger.
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Posted on 5/11/16 at 2:44 pm to baldona
Standard pressure .357 mag in a full size steel revolver is very controllable and I wouldn't nearly hesitate to let my mawmaw shoot mine.
Posted on 5/11/16 at 2:49 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Big guns are intimidating to none shooters, period. I'm fully aware of recoil, ballistics, etc.
But again, you are talking about a 64 year old lady that can't even rack a .22. She is inexperienced, weak, and frail most likely. She is not going to want a big heavy gun. My wife wouldn't want one, most women I know would not.
But again, you are talking about a 64 year old lady that can't even rack a .22. She is inexperienced, weak, and frail most likely. She is not going to want a big heavy gun. My wife wouldn't want one, most women I know would not.
Posted on 5/11/16 at 2:54 pm to baldona
quote:
Big guns are intimidating to none shooters, period. I'm fully aware of recoil, ballistics, etc.
But again, you are talking about a 64 year old lady that can't even rack a .22. She is inexperienced, weak, and frail most likely. She is not going to want a big heavy gun. My wife wouldn't want one, most women I know would not.
My daughter was 10 when she started shooting my GP100.
I'm thinking you don't know what you're talking about.
ETA: my 64 yr old MIL would likely beat you for calling her frail.
This post was edited on 5/11/16 at 2:56 pm
Posted on 5/11/16 at 3:18 pm to baldona
quote:
She is not going to want a big heavy gun.
So she'd rather a tiny sub 38 that may break her wrists and her "frail" hand bones every time she shoots it?
A new shooter is a new shooter, it doesn't matter the age. No one likes tons of recoil. You'll never find me at the range putting 200+ down through a snub. But through a full sized revolver or a full sized semi it would be no problem.
Posted on 5/11/16 at 4:14 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
What about a second person in the same lane? Less or another $18?
I believe he rattled off another lower number? Maybe ten bucks for next shooter? He was throwing out numbers and trying to sell a membership at the same time, so I can't recall.
They did have a nice selection of guns to paw at. But heavily weighted toward higher end. Finally got to touch a Sig P226 and 229 though. Never held a 226. Then HK and assorted stupid-nice 1911's. I stopped looking at a $3699 price tag.
Posted on 5/11/16 at 4:27 pm to bapple
quote:
So she'd rather a tiny sub 38 that may break her wrists and her "frail" hand bones every time she shoots it?
A new shooter is a new shooter, it doesn't matter the age. No one likes tons of recoil. You'll never find me at the range putting 200+ down through a snub. But through a full sized revolver or a full sized semi it would be no problem.
Again, for myself I agree with you. But again, you are talking about someone that can not rack a .22 semi. Those are not very difficult. There is no way someone that can't rack a .22 can handle a full size revolver, just no way. Furthermore, if she is used to the .22 that she can't use properly that full size .357 is going to be very intimidating no matter the recoil. We can agree to disagree though, that is fine.
Posted on 5/11/16 at 4:29 pm to TexasTiger
quote:
Hopefully American Shooting center opens back up in the next few weeks.
How many feet of water were they under?
Posted on 5/11/16 at 4:29 pm to LSU alum wannabe
You should have her try the Walther CCP. It's a single stack, compact 9mm and is very ergonomic. It's basically the little cousin of the HK VP9. The good part about it is that it's gas operated so the barrel is mounted to the frame so it is ridiculously easy to rack the slide. I'd be willing to bet that a 4 year old could rack the slide on that thing.
Posted on 5/11/16 at 4:33 pm to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
What about a second person in the same lane? Less or another $18?
I believe he rattled off another lower number? Maybe ten bucks for next shooter? He was throwing out numbers and trying to sell a membership at the same time, so I can't recall.
They did have a nice selection of guns to paw at. But heavily weighted toward higher end. Finally got to touch a Sig P226 and 229 though. Never held a 226. Then HK and assorted stupid-nice 1911's. I stopped looking at a $3699 price tag.
I try to go to Boyert once a month. Ive always been charged the same price per person even if youre sharing a lane. I did rent the 226 once and it is a nice gun. They waived the gun rental fee when you buy their ammo.
Posted on 5/11/16 at 4:33 pm to baldona
quote:
Again, for myself I agree with you. But again, you are talking about someone that can not rack a .22 semi. Those are not very difficult. There is no way someone that can't rack a .22 can handle a full size revolver, just no way. Furthermore, if she is used to the .22 that she can't use properly that full size .357 is going to be very intimidating no matter the recoil. We can agree to disagree though, that is fine.
This is pretty much where I am. I just handed her my CZ 75 to hold. The weight of that was intimidating. I told her that light does not equal smooth when shot and that my 40 feels like a 9mm or smaller because it is so damned heavy. My other problem will be finding range time.
Posted on 5/11/16 at 4:52 pm to LSU alum wannabe
You also may be able to grind down some metal or switch some springs, or have a gun smith do it, to make a semi easier to rack.
At the same time, having a semi auto with one in the chamber is no different than a revolver. You rack one for her on a 9mm with a 17+ round clip and its not like she will have to do it again herself.
At the same time, having a semi auto with one in the chamber is no different than a revolver. You rack one for her on a 9mm with a 17+ round clip and its not like she will have to do it again herself.
Posted on 5/11/16 at 6:02 pm to bapple
quote:
Teach them the proper method so they can utilize large upper body muscle groups rather than isolating the forearm muscles. I'm not saying you have to give her a semi-auto but to say most women can't rack the slide on one is just plain wrong.
Also, bring the gun up close to their chest. The closer to the chest the more strength they can put into it.
Most problems come from just trying to pull the slide back. They should be pulling the slide with one hand and pushing the frame with the other.
Posted on 5/11/16 at 7:10 pm to baldona
quote:I have never, ever recommended a rimfire cartridge for self-defense.
The nice thing about a .22 is that almost everyone is accurate as heck with them, it's very easy to have all rounds hit center mass with a .22 compared to higher recoil in high stress situations.
The chances of her actually pulling it to use are slim to none. The chances of her actually firing it are slim to none from there. And the chances of her needing to actually kill someone after she fires one shot and that doesn't scare them away are even slimmer. I'd get a gun she can be comfortable handling in the dark and shoot without being scared, and be fine with that.
But in the case of the OP's mom, Baldona's argument contains a lot of logic. Revolvers chambered in .22 Magnum are less likely (in my experience) to experience failures-to-fire than rimfire semi-autos. And when fired in single action mode, the trigger pull is well suited for weak, elderly (and presumably) arthritic hands.
After she is comfortable with the .22 Magnum, and if she is inclined to actually practice with it, there will be plenty of time to suggest to her that she try a .38 revolver, or a .32 Magnum revolver.
A recent NRA magazine test (Yeah, I distrust their articles as much as the next guy. But this one actually had some good info) on .22 magnum defensive ammo had this to say:
It was also clear from the results, with the exception of four loads; Hornady’s Critical Defense, Speer’s Gold Dot, Winchester’s PDX1 and the somewhat surprising CCI TNT load, no other .22 WMR load will expand from a handgun. The Hornady, Speer and Winchester loads, which performed well and even expanded through denim—except from the 1-inch barrel—seem to be the obvious choice, especially with penetration around the magic 13-inch mark. No surprise here; all of these loads were purpose-built for the defensive handgun. On the other hand, the 30-grain CCI TNT load was the only load that expanded from every firearm, in every test.
To the OP: Come on dude. Don't get too hung up on price points -- it's yore momma.
Get her a good handgun. Loan it to her, if need be, to guarantee you'll end up with it after she passes.Posted on 5/11/16 at 8:20 pm to LSU alum wannabe
This update has gone pretty much the same direction as the original w/ the additional consideration of the 22 LR and 22 Mag. Consequently, I'll repeat my original posts from earlier:
Personally, I'd still be leery of a 22 rimfire for self defense. Also, quality 22 Mag ammo has been pretty hard to find for a good while
quote:
Why does everyone else think she needs to get a 5 shot/lightweight/snubnose revolver? This is for a home defense gun, not concealed carry. Consequently, a full size, steel revolver is the better choice. Chamber it in 357 Mag and let her shoot 38+P. Heck, S&W also makes 8 shot revolvers. Although Ruger doesn't have the "pizzaz" of S&W, there's nothing wrong w/ their quality , reliability or workmanship.
Be sure she's comfortable w/ a revolver. If she can handle a full size semi-auto, a full size 9mm would be a good choice, as well.
VERY important: You're more than welcome to point her a good direction w/ her purchase, but the final choice needs to be HERS, not YOURS. Otherwise, chances are she'll never like your choice as well as she needs to.
quote:
I can understand working w/in a budget. To keep in your price range, you might consider a used gun or police trade ins. For example, this one would be NICE, but out of stock.
Personally, I'd still be leery of a 22 rimfire for self defense. Also, quality 22 Mag ammo has been pretty hard to find for a good while
Posted on 5/11/16 at 9:10 pm to baldona
quote:
IMO it's laughable to suggest a .357 or bigger gun or round for a 64 year old lady with little to no gun experience. Get her a .38
I may be wrong here but it seems like you don't realize that people are saying to get a 357 and use 38 rounds in it. The gun itself is a little bigger but would use the same round you suggested in the above post.
If you do understand that but are still arguing for a snubby then good luck to you.
Posted on 5/12/16 at 2:09 am to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
Never held a 226.
I'm a classic sig guy, and I finally got one last year. Should have researched a little more and gotten the Mk25, but it is still a great gun.
Posted on 5/12/16 at 6:43 am to TigerOnThe Hill
quote:
VERY important: You're more than welcome to point her a good direction w/ her purchase, but the final choice needs to be HERS, not YOURS. Otherwise, chances are she'll never like your choice as well as she needs to.
Another important point I forgot to mention!
Posted on 5/12/16 at 8:09 am to dawg23
I support your post. Many on here like to project their expertise, but the fact is, MOST ladies are not going to put in sufficient range time to get familiar with a semi-auto. In a time of stress, mom only needs to pull the trigger or cock the hammer to fire single action. A.38 is great for home defense. Take a look at a used Taurus or Rossi, not the best but in your price range and adequate. You can find used Smith's for around 350 or so. I carried a Smith "bodyguard" when working plain clothes or undercover. I never felt I was undergunned. OP can listen to an instructor like you or a person with LE experience, or follow the herd and buy into the need for 15 rounds in a semi-auto that mom will not shoot or get proficient with.
Posted on 5/12/16 at 8:22 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
I'm a classic sig guy, and I finally got one last year. Should have researched a little more and gotten the Mk25, but it is still a great gun.
I've had my P228 for about 16 years. It was my first semi auto hand gun and I went with the 228 instead of the 226 so I could carry it. Now that I have better carry options I wished I would have gotten a 226 instead. Also wish I had a good way to put a light on my 228.
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