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re: When does someone no longer have the right to work? (Oregon State pitcher related)
Posted on 6/15/17 at 11:14 am to cubsfan5150
Posted on 6/15/17 at 11:14 am to cubsfan5150
One is entertainment dependent on public support. The other is not.
Public opinion drives these decisions.
Public opinion drives these decisions.
0
Posted on 6/15/17 at 11:14 am to cubsfan5150
I completely forgot when roofing has ad campaigns directed towards children.
Posted on 6/15/17 at 11:15 am to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:
Nothing. What makes it a right?
If he has nothing preventing him from doing it then he has the right to do it.
Posted on 6/15/17 at 11:15 am to Weagle25
Touché.
There is a difference.
There is a difference.
Posted on 6/15/17 at 11:17 am to cubsfan5150
quote:
He has a right to do what he's best qualified for, as long as someone is willing to give him a chance.
He went undrafted genius.
Posted on 6/15/17 at 11:17 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:Don't use hyperbole and we can have an honest conversation.
This is a cop out.
quote:He can have whatever job someone is willing to hire him for.
Are you saying he just can't have a "prestigious" or high paying jobs or public eye? Who gets to decide what jobs he can and can't have?
Posted on 6/15/17 at 11:19 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Who gets to decide what jobs he can and can't have?
Employers.
Posted on 6/15/17 at 11:19 am to H-Town Tiger
If I owned shares in a business, and they hired a convicted child molester, I'd have real questions if they were trying to max shareholder wealth.
Like it or not, some crimes just leave a bad taste in people's mouths. Michael Vick is still affected by his crimes, even though he's put in years and years of effort trying to atone. shite, if you want to go that existential, do judges sentencing opinions reflect the opinion of a society at large? Just because he went to jail for a set number of years, or had to be put on some sort of list does not mean society has to take him back.
Like it or not, some crimes just leave a bad taste in people's mouths. Michael Vick is still affected by his crimes, even though he's put in years and years of effort trying to atone. shite, if you want to go that existential, do judges sentencing opinions reflect the opinion of a society at large? Just because he went to jail for a set number of years, or had to be put on some sort of list does not mean society has to take him back.
Posted on 6/15/17 at 11:22 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Who gets to decide what jobs he can and can't have?
The employers from whom he seeks employment
quote:
I mean preschool teacher or day care worker ok, but someone asked if you'd hire a carpenter that was a registered sex offender implying he wouldn't.
Maybe that person doesn't want a carpenter in their house near children if the person is a sex offender?
quote:
Saying he's not banned but everyone refusing to hire him in part because of public pressure is a de facto ban.
So what? The MLB and individual teams are private entities, they have no obligation to hire the kid. It does not matter whether it's a de facto or direct ban.
Posted on 6/15/17 at 11:29 am to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:
There is a difference.
I agree but you can't ask him to explain the difference when he doesn't see it.
Posted on 6/15/17 at 11:50 am to cubsfan5150
quote:
When does a "criminal" lose the right to work?
He doesn't lose his right to work, but what is great about the United States is that the potential employer has a right not to hire him.
Posted on 6/15/17 at 11:58 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
I'm sure McDonald's will hire him. No one is forcing anyone to not hire him
Well they sort of are...by everyone now knowing.
Which is why its so difficult for felons to get jobs if every employer can immediately bring up the past against you.
Our system doesn't allow people to move on and amend. All those job skills classes and rehabilitation in prison are bullshite - if once you get out, your record isn't sealed and everyone says...hey, you're a great carpenter...but I just googled your criminal background and I ain't hiring no thief.
We still live in a Scarlet Letter society. We don't want rehabilitation and we won't allow the mechanism to erase the past - we want eternal punishment.
At least I think that's the OP's point. We banish a large portion of people from the workforce and then complain when they live off the government's dime.
Posted on 6/15/17 at 12:02 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Is he really a "sexual predator" i.e. repeat offender or someone who as a minor did something horrible? If you think the crime is so horrible or it's something he can't be rehabilitated from, what exactly should we do with him? And cop outs like "screw him@ or let him rot don't do anything. If he can't work or go to school hiw exactly will that prevent him from committing other crimes.
All I said is it'll be hard for him to succeed in a profession where he's constantly being seen by the public, like an MLB pitcher. The media will carve him up.
I'm not saying that he can't work at all but it would probably benefit him to pursue something more low-key.
JMO
Posted on 6/15/17 at 12:07 pm to Damone
quote:
So what? The MLB and individual teams are private entities, they have no obligation to hire the kid. It does not matter whether it's a de facto or direct ban.
No one is saying anyone is obligated to hire someone so stop with that straw man. Are the teams not hiring him because the teams management refuses to hire someone with a criminal record or because of public pressure?
So if we can get off the high horse for a moment what should this kid do with his life if everyone says they won't hire him because of their moral outrage over a past crime? If he can't find work then what should he do? He becomes a ward of the state and it would seem more likely to commit crimes than if he's allowed to move on.
Posted on 6/15/17 at 12:09 pm to H-Town Tiger
He can cut grass. You're working under the false assumption that he will never get hired.
Hyperbole doesn't help your argument.
Hyperbole doesn't help your argument.
This post was edited on 6/15/17 at 12:09 pm
Posted on 6/15/17 at 12:14 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
He becomes a ward of the state and it would seem more likely to commit crimes than if he's allowed to move on.
So it's either Major League Baseball or welfare?
I assume he has or will soon have a degree. He'll have to take a job out of the public eye, or maybe play ball overseas.
Posted on 6/15/17 at 12:15 pm to Weagle25
quote:Nothing, but then what's the point of the thread? I'm not quite sure
What prevents him from doing what he's best qualified to do if someone offers him that job?
This post was edited on 6/15/17 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 6/15/17 at 12:16 pm to Master of Sinanju
quote:Yeah, dude. In this fantastic hypothetical, it's either or.
So it's either Major League Baseball or welfare?
Posted on 6/15/17 at 12:17 pm to GetCocky11
quote:
Idk, maybe his burger flipping ability is pretty good.
Scouts say he cooks a mean slider.
Posted on 6/15/17 at 12:19 pm to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:
Don't use hyperbole and we can have an honest conversation
quote:
He can have whatever job someone is willing to hire him for.
An employer might he willing to hire him but won't for fear of public back lash. We can't have an honest conversation if we don't acknowledge that fact. Simply saying they have the right to not hire him or not do business with someone that does is not facing reality that he has to do something with the rest of his life. So we can imprison him for life with no parole, which seems cruel given his age at the time of the crime and counter productive since someone with no chance of getting out has no incentive to behave. We can make him a ward if the state which also seems wasteful and counter productive or allow him to move on with his life.
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