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re: Outlook for lawyers growing more grim
Posted on 7/15/14 at 10:57 am to Mo Jeaux
Posted on 7/15/14 at 10:57 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Back in 2008, associates at big firms made $125,000 straight out of school. But by last year, that had dropped to $95,000.
I don't know if this is true.
This makes no sense unless their definition of "big firm" is unusual, like any firm with 25+ attorneys.
0
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:01 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
I don't know if this is true.
That's because it isn't true. Unless they've broadened the definition of Big Law to include firms in the AmLaw200, associates make at least $160k in the major markets (e.g. New York, Chicago, Dallas, San Francisco). The only major market that hasn't come around to the 160k salary that I can think of is Atlanta. They are just weird.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:02 am to UpToPar
quote:
And the one below that has even less.
I believe Tulane has recently lowered the number of students it admits to law school as well.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:07 am to Creamer
quote:
Is this common? What about being able to work the first semester?
I don't think anyone has been denied permission to work a campus part time job.
I wouldn't recommend it your first semester. Law school can be tough to figure out at first and requires a ton of hard work if you want to be at the top of the class and have job opportunities.
Even the second semester, only work if you felt good about how you did the first semester and I would find a job that let's you significantly decrease your hours or even take off for about a month or so before finals.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:07 am to GoGeauxGaux
quote:
Med schools have the system figured out. They put the bottle neck at getting in to medical school in the first place, so once someone is in, they are basically set (as long as they can hack it).
Law schools are more than happy to profit off of students that they know won't have good job prospects when they finish.
Med Schools aren't smarter or more benevolent than Law Schools, they are just WAYYYYY more expensive to run. Law Schools are University profit centers. They cost very little (relatively) to run and make exorbitant amounts of money for the school. Trust me, if Medical schools were similarly lucrative, they'd take everyone's money, I assure you.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:08 am to lsupride87
quote:
To pass the CPA exam the first time is around 20%
What percentage of accounting grads plan to take the exam. what percentage actually take the exam?
when i came through in the late 70s, NLU profs never mentioned the exam. when i transferred to LSU, Professor Fair kept talking about "the exam," and i had no idea what he was talking about.
passed it the 5th time, 2nd time studying.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:09 am to Scruffy
There are 3 reasons for this:
1. There are too many new lawyers being thrown into the market.
2. The Boomers are not leaving the market.
3. Many Boomers that are retiring have structured their firm where they still have a partnership stake and siphon off earnings of others.
If you have an 8 year old, telling them to be a lawyer might be ok. If you have an 18 year old, I'd advise against it.
1. There are too many new lawyers being thrown into the market.
2. The Boomers are not leaving the market.
3. Many Boomers that are retiring have structured their firm where they still have a partnership stake and siphon off earnings of others.
If you have an 8 year old, telling them to be a lawyer might be ok. If you have an 18 year old, I'd advise against it.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:10 am to LoveThatMoney
quote:
That's because it isn't true. Unless they've broadened the definition of Big Law to include firms in the AmLaw200, associates make at least $160k in the major markets (e.g. New York, Chicago, Dallas, San Francisco). The only major market that hasn't come around to the 160k salary that I can think of is Atlanta. They are just weird.
Yea, 160 is pretty uniform across the board in big law and big city. Another thing that doesn't get reported is the yearly bonuses which, in some instances can be upwards of 20% of an associates yearly salary.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:13 am to CountryVolFan
quote:
If you have an 8 year old, telling them to be a lawyer might be ok. If you have an 18 year old, I'd advise against it.
The next 5 years or so will be one of the best times to get into the legal market. The firms that placed hiring holds during the economic downturn will be looking to make up for lost growth during that time.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:14 am to CountryVolFan
quote:
If you have an 8 year old, telling them to be a lawyer might be ok.
That better one exceptional 8 year old.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:15 am to UpToPar
quote:
Yea, 160 is pretty uniform across the board in big law and big city. Another thing that doesn't get reported is the yearly bonuses which, in some instances can be upwards of 20% of an associates yearly salary.
There's no doubt that you can make a lot of money straight out of law school if you graduate in the top 10% from a top law school and are willing to work an insane amount of hours. But those folks are the rare exception, not the rule.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:21 am to UpToPar
I was looking to continue an engineering job part time. Guess thats out for at least the first semester.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:23 am to Monk
quote:
There's no doubt that you can make a lot of money straight out of law school if you graduate in the top 10% from a top law school and are willing to work an insane amount of hours. But those folks are the rare exception, not the rule.
To give you an idea, LSU will probably place between 3-6 students at Big Law firms in major markets (mostly Houston and Dallas). Sure, those students are in the top 5%, but I wouldn't consider LSU a top law school.
About another 10-20 students will get jobs at big law firms in Louisiana and some mid sized firms in louisiana making what I would still consider very good money right out if school (90-100K not including bonuses).
Another 15-30 students will get a job with mid to small sized law firms making anywhere from 50-80k out of school.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:26 am to UpToPar
That seems about right. I just did a bit of research and it appears to average first year associate salary is in the $80's.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:29 am to UpToPar
What are district and appellate clerkships paying now?
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:39 am to UpToPar
To put those numbers in perspective, roughly 25% of law students have jobs lined up at graduation (I believe Tulane's 2012 was about 26%). The other 75% are pretty screwed. Those are some bad odds.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:40 am to UpToPar
quote:
Another thing that doesn't get reported is the yearly bonuses which, in some instances can be upwards of 20% of an associates yearly salary
Yeah. A lot of first years don't make that size bonus because they don't work enough (or aren't supposed to).
But if you work at Sussman... You can make 100% bonus. Of course, you bill 3000 hours and are required to have a couch in your office so you have a place to sleep, but as a first or second year making $320k after bonus? If you're unmarried and a young person with nothing to keep you from working that much, I can see the appeal to that. I also understand why people stay there for two years and leave. Lol.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:46 am to LoveThatMoney
Well I'm planning on attending LSU law school next fall. I'm going for basically free though so I have pretty much nothing to lose. I personally think the legal job market is heading in a good direction.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:46 am to PrideofTheSEC
You'll be alright. Just make your grades.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 11:46 am to ShreveportSteamer
quote:
To put those numbers in perspective, roughly 25% of law students have jobs lined up at graduation (I believe Tulane's 2012 was about 26%). The other 75% are pretty screwed. Those are some bad odds.
Most of my friends and classmates had jobs coming out of school or secured them fairly soon thereafter. They may not have been what they wanted, but they were employed. Of course, many had a mountain of debt...
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