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Message
re: Off Duty cops (NYPD) want to carry handguns into NFL stadiums
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:23 pm to DanTiger
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:23 pm to DanTiger
quote:
One usually doesn't take the kids to a bar.
So it's to protect his kid? What about his wife?
What's the difference between him walking back to his car from a football game and him walking through an airport about to go on a family vacation? Should he be allowed to carry at all times with no exceptions to protect his family at all costs?
1
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:23 pm to UpToPar
quote:
Okay, so we are going to draw the line at "high ranking officials"? I think some of you may be surprised at the varying levels of competence of some young police officers. I would have no problem drawing a line between the ones we believe are competent to carry and the ones who are not, but how do you determine that?
I don't really want to get into this but most Federal Agents can carry on planes.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:23 pm to UpToPar
You cited somewhere being full of people and innocent bystanders as reasons why we shouldn't want someone shooting if need be. Whether someone is off duty or not, the bullets would still fly in the instance it was needed. Know how much I have to worry about an off duty cop shooting me? Zero. Because I do not break the law. But if some arse hole in front of me decides he wants to stab me and take my wallet and an off duty Trooper sitting next to me takes him out, I am all for it. I do not like being disarmed from my CCL in the instances that I am, but I am also not trained near to the level of a police officer.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:24 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
quote:
This really isn't the thread for that, that is why I said high ranking, to avoid the competence question.
I would be fine with that, but I think that it isn't feasible.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:25 pm to UpToPar
quote:
What's the difference between him walking back to his car from a football game and him walking through an airport about to go on a family vacation? Should he be allowed to carry at all times with no exceptions to protect his family at all costs?
An airport is a secure facility. I will tell you that when my family flies one of us is carrying.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:26 pm to theenemy
quote:
Since the start of the NFL how many off duty police officers have wounded or killed innocent bystanders during football games?
How many have fired their gun at all? I seriously don't know the answer to this question. Better yet, has there ever been an on duty or off duty officer fire his gun at a stadium during sporting event?
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:26 pm to DanTiger
quote:
I don't really want to get into this but most Federal Agents can carry on planes.
Federal agents are required to carry on planes.
New policies make federal agents act in the capacity of an Air Marshal while flying.
This post was edited on 3/11/14 at 2:28 pm
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:27 pm to toosleaux
quote:
I do not like being disarmed from my CCL in the instances that I am, but I am also not trained near to the level of a police officer.
lol, you would be surprised.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:27 pm to DanTiger
No, that's not what the federal law was for because that would make zero logic. Why would a cop from Louisiana need to carry outfit in Montana? He didn't arrest anybody in Montana. The law was done to basically give special privilege to LEOs and grant them a federal blanket CCL as a perk of the job.
So expected to walk back to my car with possibly a crazy Philadelphia Eagles fan that got pissed bc I cheered for my team kicking a game winning field goal following me and my family but BC im not a LEO I don't get to be armed? That's not special privilege for
cops?
I'll admit I'm a bit harder on cops BC I was one and I know the mentality the vast majority operate with but it I see no actual benefits of an off duty LEO carrying at an NFL game.
quote:
Would you have him walk back to his car with his wife and kid, unarmed, while a felon he locked up is following him?
So expected to walk back to my car with possibly a crazy Philadelphia Eagles fan that got pissed bc I cheered for my team kicking a game winning field goal following me and my family but BC im not a LEO I don't get to be armed? That's not special privilege for
cops?
I'll admit I'm a bit harder on cops BC I was one and I know the mentality the vast majority operate with but it I see no actual benefits of an off duty LEO carrying at an NFL game.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:28 pm to theenemy
quote:
Federal agents are required to carry on planes.
Not when off duty.
quote:
New policies make federal agents become act in the capacity of an Air Marshal while flying.
Let's just say they can carry and are required to take a course on it. Police officers can take this course at FLETC as well.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:28 pm to DanTiger
quote:
An airport is a secure facility.
So is a football game to some extent. It's not like they let anyone else with guns in to a football game.
quote:
I will tell you that when my family flies one of us is carrying.
I would bet you are in the vast minority.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:30 pm to brass2mouth
quote:
I'll admit I'm a bit harder on cops BC I was one and I know the mentality the vast majority operate with but it I see no actual benefits of an off duty LEO carrying at an NFL game.
This. Why is a cop's need to protect himself and his family any more important that any other citizen?
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:32 pm to DanTiger
quote:
Not when off duty
Incorrect.
Now when flying, federal agents have to notify the airlines they are an agent. At which point, the air Marshall assigned to that flight is reassigned and the agent acts as air marshall.
Even when flying with you family you have to do that.
what really sucks is they have to seat you first but your family has to wait with the other passengers.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:33 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
quote:No he is not considering that cops are under no obligation to help you ever, on duty or off.
Is he under an ethical obligation to step in due to his training and status as a police officer?
Yes, that has been ruled on in the courts. Cops have no requirements to help citizens in trouble.
Just one more situation in society where cops want preferential treatment.
This post was edited on 3/11/14 at 2:36 pm
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:34 pm to brass2mouth
quote:
No, that's not what the federal law was for because that would make zero logic. Why would a cop from Louisiana need to carry outfit in Montana? He didn't arrest anybody in Montana.
This was one of the major selling points of the bill when it was written. I didn't write the bill I am just telling you how it was sold to Congress.
quote:
The law was done to basically give special privilege to LEOs and grant them a federal blanket CCL as a perk of the job.
I totally disagree with this. I don't think this was envisioned as some sort of recruiting tool. The bill was passed as both an officer safety and a public safety tool.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:35 pm to theenemy
Awesome laws IMO.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:35 pm to UpToPar
quote:
This. Why is a cop's need to protect himself and his family any more important that any other citizen?
Because we also protect your family as well.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:36 pm to brass2mouth
quote:
if me as a trained citizen can't carry then off duty police shouldn't either.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:36 pm to theenemy
quote:
Incorrect.
Now when flying, federal agents have to notify the airlines they are an agent. At which point, the air Marshall assigned to that flight is reassigned and the agent acts as air marshall.
Even when flying with you family you have to do that.
what really sucks is they have to seat you first but your family has to wait with the other passengers.
This is what my wife does for a living. If she doesn;t want to carry and we are going on vacation she doesn't have to and she doesn't have to tell a soul what she does. The pilot can actually prevent an offduty agent from carrying if he wishes so you run the risk of missing your flight if you decide to carry when going on vacation.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:37 pm to theenemy
quote:No they don't. Cops show up after crimes are committed.
Because we also protect your family as well.
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