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re: Hospital nurse arrested after refusing illegal blood draw order

Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:22 am to
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20883 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:22 am to
quote:

There is nothing illegal about it.


Our supreme court disagrees, I believe.
Posted by GetCocky11
Calgary, AB
Member since Oct 2012
51270 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:23 am to
quote:

That's normally done.

When a crash results in a death or serious injury, blood is always drawn.

There is nothing illegal about it.

People may not like it but it's how the process is done.


I'm pretty sure as of a SCOTUS case in 2016, that is incorrect.
Posted by SCLibertarian
Conway, South Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
36014 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:23 am to
The patient was unconscious. He can't consent to the procedure. And there was no court order or warrant authorizing the hospital to give law enforcement a sample. There is a reason why this nurse wasn't even charged with a crime: she didn't commit one. If the police department thought they were entitled to blood, they would have charged her with a crime.
This post was edited on 9/1/17 at 8:24 am
Posted by LSU316
Rice and Easy Baby!!!
Member since Nov 2007
29287 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:23 am to
If her lawyer is worth a shite she'll get paid.
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
58647 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:24 am to
quote:

There is nothing illegal about it.

People may not like it but it's how the process is done.



Why don't you give your legal opinion to the hospital's lawyers who prepared the hospital's policy? They probably don't have the thorough legal knowledge that you do.
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20883 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:25 am to
quote:

The patient was unconscious. He can't consent to the procedure. And there was no court order or warrant authorizing the hospital to give law enforcement a sample. There is a reason why this nurse wasn't even charged with a crime: she didn't commit one. If the police department thought they were entitled to blood, they would have charged her with a crime.


Being as the LEO knew it would have been an unlawful search/seizure, and he decided to arrest her anyway, does that open him up to a 1983 action in fed court?
Posted by Golfer
Member since Nov 2005
75052 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:26 am to
The article also states that the injured is a cop and they were quickly trying to release him of any wrongdoing.
Posted by SoFla Tideroller
South Florida
Member since Apr 2010
30077 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:27 am to
Did Birchfield specifically address cases of crashes with injuries? I could see the court recognizing this as a legitimate exception to the Birchfield ruling or holding that there is no difference. Just a quick check of the Googles doesn't show either way. I would think as the availability of e-warrants becomes more widespread that courts will draw a harder line on the necessity of obtaining warrants prior to searches and seizures.

Our agency has an electronic document accountability system. When new court decisions come out or legislative changes are made to statutes, we have to e-sign stating we have read and are up to date on the changes. If this officer's agency has a similar system in place, he could be in deep kimshee. If not, the agency and not necessarily the officer may be on the hook (failure to train, etc).
Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:27 am to
quote:

NolaAg04
New Orleans and an Aggie. Figures.
Posted by TexasTiger89
Houston, TX
Member since Feb 2005
24266 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:29 am to
quote:

I dont hate cops. I just wish their average IQ and pay was much higher so we dont have to read stories like this.


I took a CHL refresher and the teacher was a Harris County Sheriff. He did an hour on what to do when a police officer stops you and you produce your CHL. He started with the statement " Unfortunately every police department in the world has to recruit their officers from the human race. You never know what is going to happen when you are stopped."

He then proceeded to tell us a few stories about some of the stupidity that he experienced being stopped when he wasn't in uniform.
Posted by Golfer
Member since Nov 2005
75052 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:30 am to
quote:

If not, the agency and not necessarily the officer may be on the hook (failure to train, etc).


Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse.
Posted by DelU249
Austria
Member since Dec 2010
77625 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:31 am to
the patient was in an accident in which a person was killed.

is that probable cause?

Posted by lsunurse
Member since Dec 2005
128950 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:33 am to
quote:

The article also states that the injured is a cop and they were quickly trying to release him of any wrongdoing.





quote:

Gray is a truck driver when he is not serving as a reserve police officer, according to the Idaho State Journal.
At about 2 p.m. on July 26, Gray was driving a semi north on State Road 89/91 near Sardine Canyon when a man fleeing from the Utah Highway Patrol crashed a pickup truck into him head-on, according to Logan police, who investigated the collision.



The patient was unconscious and not facing criminal charges(no warrant). You can't draw the blood on him, no matter how much the police try to force you to.
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20883 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:35 am to
quote:

the patient was in an accident in which a person was killed.


:disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, just married to one...

....but I would imagine you would have a hard time proving that the LEO had probable cause to believe the victim committed a crime.
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
32420 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:36 am to
quote:

That's normally done.

So people normally get arrested when they don't comply with an illegal request from the authorities?

You're probably right, but that doesn't make it right.
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20883 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:37 am to
quote:

Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse.


Well actually... Heien changed that. IIRC they ruled as long as its a reasonable misunderstanding of the law, it's allowed for LEO.
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20883 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:38 am to
quote:

Did Birchfield specifically address cases of crashes with injuries? I could see the court recognizing this as a legitimate exception to the Birchfield ruling or holding that there is no difference. Just a quick check of the Googles doesn't show either way. I would think as the availability of e-warrants becomes more widespread that courts will draw a harder line on the necessity of obtaining warrants prior to searches and seizures.

Our agency has an electronic document accountability system. When new court decisions come out or legislative changes are made to statutes, we have to e-sign stating we have read and are up to date on the changes. If this officer's agency has a similar system in place, he could be in deep kimshee. If not, the agency and not necessarily the officer may be on the hook (failure to train, etc).


Thats a better question for the lawyers on the board.
Posted by GetCocky11
Calgary, AB
Member since Oct 2012
51270 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:38 am to
YouTube - much longer video of the incident

Includes conversations between officers and nurse after she is in handcuffs. It actually makes it worse for the officers.

Officer says about the hospital..."your policy interfering with my law"...that is just bad.
This post was edited on 9/1/17 at 8:42 am
Posted by DelU249
Austria
Member since Dec 2010
77625 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:40 am to
quote:

probable cause to believe the victim committed a crime
how is that not reasonable suspicion you were driving intoxicated...which is a crime...if for example he was driving on the wrong side of the road.



Posted by tigerpimpbot
Chairman of the Pool Board
Member since Nov 2011
66920 posts
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:40 am to
quote:

The victim in this case was a driver injured in a crash that was caused by a police chase. They wanted his blood sample to prepare a comparative negligence defense to try and get out of a lawsuit that they thought would be forthcoming. Congrats on being an authoritarian tool.


Spot on. Fricking disgusting actions by the cops.
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