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re: Biker Shootout at the Twin Peaks in Waco, TX

Posted on 6/4/15 at 12:44 pm to
Posted by WaveHog
Austin, TX
Member since May 2008
6968 posts
Posted on 6/4/15 at 12:44 pm to
quote:

Hadn't been keeping up with these cases. Is it true that the whole "We'll reduce bond if you sign this waiver" mantra was just BS?



almost certainly. you can't sign away constitutional protections.
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64658 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 8:48 am to
Bump for update

quote:

It has been 19 days since the worst episode of “biker violence“ in the history of the United States.

There were no homicides at Hollister in 1947 or at two “motorcycle riots” in Riverside, California in the ensuing year. There were three homicides in Harrah’s Casino during the Laughlin Riot in 2002. There was one homicide in the Sparks Shootout in 2011. There were nine homicides in the Waco Massacre on May 17 and although the police might not have killed all nine or shot 17 more they have been acting like they did ever since.

Waco police immediately sealed the entire shopping center, the Central Texas Market Place, in which the homicides and other injuries occurred and kept it closed for 72 hours while all evidence and possible evidence – including an unknown number of private cars, trucks and motorcycles – was removed and hidden. Police spokesman W. Patrick Swanton immediately tried to panic the nation into blind acquiescence with a storyline that made Tom Laughlin’s The Born Losers look thoughtful and subtle.

One hundred seventy-six people were arrested with the probable cause that they were bikers so they probably caused the deaths and injuries. Effectively, small town officials in Waco were given carte blanche to ruin the lives of scores of completely innocent people.
Posted by Agforlife
Somewhere in the Brazos Valley
Member since Nov 2012
20102 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 8:54 am to
Don't know how many will actually go read the whole article, but Rebel hit the nail on the head, as usual
Posted by LoneStarTiger
Lone Star State
Member since Aug 2004
15950 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 8:54 am to
Any Onion articles you can link and quote? It would be just as credible, IMO
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64658 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 9:10 am to
quote:

Any Onion articles you can link and quote? It would be just as credible, IMO


Go ahead and post some links to refute whatever in his article is wrong. Or is this the typical tactic of attacking the source when you can't refute what it says?
Posted by Agforlife
Somewhere in the Brazos Valley
Member since Nov 2012
20102 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 9:11 am to
quote:

Any Onion articles you can link and quote? It would be just as credible, IMO



Why don't you do a little research and see just who Rebel is, I'll give you a head start, he's an author who is well respected by non bikers as well as bikers.
Posted by Gulf Coast Tiger
Ms Gulf Coast
Member since Jan 2004
18664 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 9:15 am to
quote:

Bottom line, I believe what happened was a huge mistake. I believe when the couple of Cossacks drew and fired at the Bandidos, there was an trigger-happy overreaction from the police that resulted in a massacre. And everything that's happened since is the Waco PD's attempt to cover up the fact that they royally screwed up and killed and injured a lot of innocent people, not to mention put at risk hundreds more, biker and non-biker equally, when they unleashed a hail of bullets like they were at the OK Corral.



I understand what you believe happened and I honestly don't know what happened. So much mis information has been put out it is hard to actually know what the facts are in this case. I do believe that this DA will have a very hard time proving that all of these bikers were involved in crimes whether they were or not.
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64658 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 9:47 am to
quote:

I understand what you believe happened and I honestly don't know what happened. So much mis information has been put out it is hard to actually know what the facts are in this case.


You're right that we don't know what happened, especially out in the parking lot. Which the thing about that is there's plenty of video of what happened, the Waco PD is just not allowing the public to see that video. There's also been ample time to perform autopsies and identify who was killed by who. That information is still not coming out.

As for disinformation, there's been plenty of that from the Waco PD.

1. They claimed that the fight broke out inside Twin Peaks, but AP has seen 9 different camera angles from inside there and said no fight happened inside there. In fact all the video shows is bikers and civilians alike taking cover from a hail of bullets.

2. Then there's the matter of claiming bikers with "grenades and C4" were going to target cops. The cops claimed this info came form a club called the "Black Widows MC". Only problem is no such MC exists in Texas.

3. The cops claiming ever changing and outlandish numbers of weapons were seized at he crime scene. I think at first the number was like 50, then it jumped to 1,000 then it went down to 300 and back up to 500. Add in on top of that that they are considering things like chained wallets and vest extenders as "weapons" and this claim by the cops becomes more than absurd.


quote:

I do believe that this DA will have a very hard time proving that all of these bikers were involved in crimes whether they were or not.


The biggest problem with proving all 170 bikers are guilty of anything is the fact that there is video of the vast majority of them being inside Twin Peaks and doing nothing illegal whatsoever then taking cover (also not illegal) when the shooting starts. How can they think people are guilty of something where there's video of them at the time of the alleged crime doing nothing but taking cover?
Posted by GrammarKnotsi
Member since Feb 2013
9372 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 9:51 am to
Sometimes, in a war, you take prisoners...They may not have necessarily been shooting at you, but would they have if given the chance..?
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64658 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 9:55 am to
quote:


Sometimes, in a war, you take prisoners...They may not have necessarily been shooting at you, but would they have if given the chance..?



what in the hell are you talking about? War?? What war is going on?
Posted by GrammarKnotsi
Member since Feb 2013
9372 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 9:56 am to
quote:

what in the hell are you talking about? War?? What war is going on?



Your dumbass "brothers" were in the wrong place...The cops took them all as prisoners...

Get over it...

If they were fine, upstanding citizens, this would be more of an issue...
Posted by SUB
Member since Jan 2001
Member since Jan 2009
20915 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 10:05 am to
Exactly! Thugs are in jail. What IS the problem?
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64658 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 10:08 am to
quote:

Your dumbass "brothers" were in the wrong place...The cops took them all as prisoners...

Get over it...

If they were fine, upstanding citizens, this would be more of an issue...




‘Bear’ Kirschner, local biker gunned down in Waco, had no criminal record, like most others there

AP: Majority of 170 bikers arrested have no convictions in Texas
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64658 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 10:10 am to
quote:

Exactly! Thugs are in jail. What IS the problem?


I guess facts are hard for you.

LINK

quote:

What was initially reported as a motorcycle gang shootout that killed nine and wounded 18 to which police heroically responded last month in Waco, TX, at the Twin Peaks restaurant seems a bit more complicated, and bit worse for the cops, than that as further details have been revealed.



This week one of the people arrested at the scene, Matthew Clendennen, filed a lawsuit directly against the officers involved in the incident (Manuel Chavez by name, the others as John and Jane Does) as well as the city.

From that suit filing, in which Mr. Clendennen presents himself as a man with no criminal record, former fireman, small business owner on whom employees depend, and father of three who also depend on his ability to earn income, not to rot in jail. He insists he committed no crime and had no intention of committing any crime when he was arrested while in the Twin Peaks restaurant in the aftermath of the shooting event, and that:

Despite the fact that...Clendennen committed no criminal acts he was arrested at Twin Peaks on or about May 17, 2015 without probable cause and his motorcycle was illegally seized....On or about May 18, 2015, Chavez, aided by [unnamed other police officers], presented a criminal complaint (the “criminal complaint”) against...Clendennen to Justice of the Peace Walter H. "Pete" Peterson (Peterson)....The criminal complaint alleges that Plaintiff Matthew Alan Clendennen committed the capital offense of engaging in organized criminal activity and is attached hereto as Attachment A.

It is believed that Peterson was chosen by Chavez, Does 1-10 and Does 11-20 because he is a former Texas Department of Public Safety Trooper with no formal legal training......the identical criminal complaint used in Plaintiff Matthew Alan Clendennen’s case was used to justify the arrest of more than 100 other individuals and only the names were changed in the various criminal complaints.

The complaint alleges absolutely no individualize probable cause to establish that Plaintiff Matthew Alan Clendennen engaged in organized criminal activity. Moreover, Chavez...failed to inform Peterson that Plaintiff Matthew Alan Clendennen was not a member of the Cossacks nor the Bandidos and that he did not participate in any of the violence occurring at Twin Peaks but instead hid from the violence.

Clendennen is claiming that 170 people on the scene were just rounded up and arrested, in many cases had their motorcycles stolen by police, and were given a uniform $1 million dollar bond with no particular individual reason to believe they had committed any crime at all. He's actually trying to hit not just the city government, but the specific officers who arrested him, with liability for violating his rights. He claims to be at risk of losing both any custody of two of his children and his landscaping business while in jail.

According to this local NBC report, it will be months before those arrested at Twin Peaks get a probable cause hearing. But this week the insanely high bond was reduced for many of them, and some of them started getting out.

There are at least four reasons to wonder if the police account and actions about the motorcycle gang shootout that they allege to have pacified are above reproach:

1) As Clendennen's lawsuit notes, there is insufficient reason to believe that all the 170 arrested even committed any actual crime.

2) The police originally claimed that all those they arrested were members of the two "criminal gangs" most implicated in the deaths, the Bandidos and Cossacks; Associated Press found that not only were they not all members of those specific gangs, but whatever the criminality of the gangs, 115 of the arrested had no criminal records in Texas at least.

3) The police originally claimed over 1,000 weapons were confiscated on site, a number then downgraded to 318; but having a weapon on one's person is neither evidence of having committed nor having planned to commit a crime, but certainly can when announced to the press make some nervous people think, wow, glad the police started opening fire on that crowd!

4) Despite police reports that the fighting and shooting began inside the restaurant and spilled out, closed-circuit footage of the restaurant seen by AP and reports from the restaurateurs to the AP indicate the shooting began outside, which is where the police already were.

The police were already surrounding the restaurant in force, ready for action. Exactly how and why they began firing on the bikers and what happened before then should not necessarily be trusted merely from their mouths. They still have not officially announced how many of the dead or wounded were shot by police themselves.
This post was edited on 6/5/15 at 10:13 am
Posted by NorthshoreTiger76
Pelicans, Saints, & LSU Fan
Member since May 2009
80186 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 10:13 am to
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/5/15 at 10:14 am
Posted by BigSECfan
Member since May 2015
39 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 10:46 am to
How about some relative information to reality to thwart some of the opinionated conjecture. Also keep in mind I posted the other day that there would be more bond hearings today.

Quote from the link below.

"As of Thursday afternoon, 50 bikers had bonded-out, 127 remained in the McLennan County Jail."

LINK

Good to see that some of the lessor involved are being set free to get back to their lives.
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64658 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 11:07 am to
quote:

Reposa said the bikers' bonds are being reduced based on their motorcycle association.

"If you're a biker for Jesus you get $25,000, if you're related to other motorcycle clubs you get $100,000 or $250,000," said Reposa.


How the frick do they think this is fair and impartial?
Posted by Gorilla Fingers
Member since Jul 2011
1553 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 11:09 am to
You'd think the media would've gotten pissed and stirred some shite up by now.
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64658 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 11:16 am to
These are for the most part all white males and bikers so the media couldn't give a shite less about them. Justice and the rule of law be damned.
Posted by Old Sarge
Dean of Admissions, LSU
Member since Jan 2012
55345 posts
Posted on 6/5/15 at 11:26 am to
quote:

How the frick do they think this is fair and impartial?




The 95% that are known for criminal activity are getting higher bail amounts

SHOCKER
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