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re: Article on Rape at UVA
Posted on 11/20/14 at 10:54 pm to SPE UVA
Posted on 11/20/14 at 10:54 pm to SPE UVA
quote:
What's stunning is that she called three friends to pick her up after she got raped, and supposedly all three advised her to not go to the hospital so they would not be ostracized socially. Crazy.
Yeah, that was crazy. And sad.
Also crazy how the guy would try to talk to her later.
The whole thing is just awful, and sadly probably not that unusual.
0
Posted on 11/20/14 at 10:55 pm to SPE UVA
quote:
Those dudes at Phi Psi were always huge cheesedicks. They would take pledge classes of 50 kids, when every other frat would take 15 at most. Not surprising that a Patrick Bateman or two slipped in. I don't know how they would have pledges during the first week of school in the fall, because rush is in the spring there, and if they would take a fall pledge class it would be at least a month into the semester. I just wish that chick would have gone to the hospital after being violently gang raped and beaten up and the dudes could have gotten arrested. I talked with the counselor in the article when i was on academic probation before, feel really bad for her getting dragged through the mud.
Honestly, there are a few holes in the story. You mentioned the fall pledge issue, which I already knew. Seven fricking guys for three hours and a few objects and not a single one has felt the guilties or no one barged in or could hear what was going on and no one came forward ever or mentioned it to any friends? Not a single person noticed a battered and bloodied 18 year old girl walking right out of the party?
Nonetheless, I don't ultimately doubt that she was assaulted, just that her recollection might be inaccurate, and a defense attorney will tear right through it. The common thread for every single one of these stories that I have ever read is that none went to the hospital or to outside authorities. GO TO THE DAMN HOSPITAL AND GO TO THE DAMN POLICE.
Posted on 11/20/14 at 10:59 pm to lsu2006
I hear you but I thought from reading the article that she was about to go to the hospital but then her three friends talked her out of it for fear of not being able to go to parties in the future. Knowing the culture at UVA very well, that was odd to me.
I understand why she wouldn't want to but it sounds like she had some real shitheads giving her advice.
I understand why she wouldn't want to but it sounds like she had some real shitheads giving her advice.
Posted on 11/20/14 at 11:06 pm to AbuTheMonkey
Ive heard the frat is turning in is charter but not sure. Heard it through a "former" member of this exact chapter
This post was edited on 11/20/14 at 11:07 pm
Posted on 11/20/14 at 11:07 pm to AbuTheMonkey
I'm amazed that some frat bro could somehow convince six other dudes to violently rape a chick. That frat probably had the softest pledge process of any, the worst those pledges had to do was go to Chipotle for the actives. The sheer probability of this event is staggering, that this dude pitched this idea to six other guys and they all said sure, or if he pitched it to other guys they didn't say or do anything to stop it, or that all three of her "friends" let her down. Really a shame if even any part of this story is remotely true.
Posted on 11/20/14 at 11:09 pm to Lunchbox48
quote:
I hear you but I thought from reading the article that she was about to go to the hospital but then her three friends talked her out of it for fear of not being able to go to parties in the future. Knowing the culture at UVA very well, that was odd to me.
I understand why she wouldn't want to but it sounds like she had some real shitheads giving her advice.
It sounds like a bunch of naive and ego-driven idiots giving her awful advice.
I agree with you - knowing UVA and the people who went there as I do, I don't understand that angle, but obviously I was not in her shoes.
The reality is that this entire process needs to be taken off the hands of college administrators. Very few are adequately trained to deal with this and really know how to handle these situations. They frick it up left and right.
They can have initiative after initiative to help change the university culture, and it might help a bit; the bottom line is that, no matter what multi-million dollar programs a university will throw at it, there are people in this world who have bad intentions, and young people need to mentally prepare themselves to deal with it if it ever comes along.
We've created this cocoon of suspended reality at universities, and this is the dark underbelly. The cold, hard realities of the world still exist even at utopian American universities. Better be prepared to confront them head on as an individual because sometimes there might not be anyone there to help you.
Posted on 11/20/14 at 11:16 pm to AbuTheMonkey
I agree that the administration should not be handling this stuff because there is a natural conflict between helping the student and wanting to protect the image of the university you love/work for if at all possible. There should be some sort of third-party sexual assault office at all universities to deal with this stuff.
Posted on 11/20/14 at 11:25 pm to SPE UVA
quote:
I agree that the administration should not be handling this stuff because there is a natural conflict between helping the student and wanting to protect the image of the university you love/work for if at all possible. There should be some sort of third-party sexual assault office at all universities to deal with this stuff.
My own university had an ugly (and highly publicized) case not that long ago with something a bit like this. The university police handled it extremely poorly, and the local police and DA weren't even able to get their hands on it until weeks after the incident. I think, ultimately, the case was administered correctly, but it was a huge black eye on the university. They simply aren't the people to handle this.
Local and state police and off-campus hospital systems should be the signature authorities on all these matters, not the universities (or their police departments).
Posted on 11/21/14 at 12:15 am to GumBro Jackson
I read the whole thing. It's terrifying...
Posted on 11/21/14 at 12:16 am to AbuTheMonkey
Great job UVA Beta! Now we are all former gang rapist! WTF is wrong with you people?
Posted on 11/21/14 at 12:23 am to SPE UVA
quote:Yeah...the story is horrifying but as much as people hate on frats I just can't see this happening. I know mob mentality takes over but I just can't see 6 18 year olds all agreeing to do this to a girl clearly resisting for years without one person saying frick it and turning the whole chapter into the police. This goes beyond wanting to belong in a fraternity and I'm sure 90% of the guys who hypothetically went through with it in the heat of the moment would feel guilt their entire lives and somebody would come clean.
The sheer probability of this event is staggering, that this dude pitched this idea to six other guys and they all said sure, or if he pitched it to other guys they didn't say or do anything to stop it, or that all three of her "friends" let her down. Really a shame if even any part of this story is remotely true
I don't want to discount the girls story because if it's true they all deserve to rot in hell, but I don't see it playing out like she recounts.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 12:33 am to tween the hedges
quote:
I know mob mentality takes over but I just can't see 6 18 year olds all agreeing to do this to a girl clearly resisting for years without one person saying frick it and turning the whole chapter into the police.
The whole point of the article: the sheer power of the need to preserve an institution's reputation. The guy who'd rat them out would probably be ostracized as a "snitch" who betrayed his brothers over some "slut".
Posted on 11/21/14 at 12:52 am to tween the hedges
quote:
Yeah...the story is horrifying but as much as people hate on frats I just can't see this happening. I know mob mentality takes over but I just can't see 6 18 year olds all agreeing to do this to a girl clearly resisting for years without one person saying frick it and turning the whole chapter into the police. This goes beyond wanting to belong in a fraternity and I'm sure 90% of the guys who hypothetically went through with it in the heat of the moment would feel guilt their entire lives and somebody would come clean.
I don't want to discount the girls story because if it's true they all deserve to rot in hell, but I don't see it playing out like she recounts.
I don't know if you read the whole article or not but later on this is exactly what happens. A guy that was going through a 12 step program called the girl he and his pledge brothers raped in the 80's and apologized only to be turned in to the police.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 12:53 am to GumBro Jackson
holy shite. i never realized what a degenerate culture that school breeds. Wow.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 1:01 am to MC5601
Well damn...I didn't make it through the whole thing. A UVA grad shared it with me yesterday and honestly I was pretty troubled and stopped about halfway. That's horrible.
I guess I had an easier pledge experience but I'm being truthful that I fully believe someone in my pledge class would have called it quits on the spot. I was a virgin when I pledged and I can't even imagine what would have to go through my head to see this or let alone partake where I wouldn't have bailed and made some light of this.
I hope the victim sees some sort of justice if this article is true.
I guess I had an easier pledge experience but I'm being truthful that I fully believe someone in my pledge class would have called it quits on the spot. I was a virgin when I pledged and I can't even imagine what would have to go through my head to see this or let alone partake where I wouldn't have bailed and made some light of this.
I hope the victim sees some sort of justice if this article is true.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 1:37 am to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
Honestly, there are a few holes in the story. You mentioned the fall pledge issue, which I already knew. Seven fricking guys for three hours and a few objects and not a single one has felt the guilties or no one barged in or could hear what was going on and no one came forward ever or mentioned it to any friends? Not a single person noticed a battered and bloodied 18 year old girl walking right out of the party?
Let's see how well you remember shite when you are on your back for three hours being gang raped you giant fricking douchebag.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 1:44 am to asurob1
Your quote doesn't match your comment. Maybe you're the douchebag?
Posted on 11/21/14 at 1:53 am to asurob1
quote:
Let's see how well you remember shite when you are on your back for three hours being gang raped you giant fricking douchebag.
Easy there, cowboy. I took the angle of a defense attorney there, and her story would have been sliced a million ways to Sunday in a court of law. My ultimate point is that it must be forced and reinforced until it's second nature that victims must absolutely, positively go to real medical and legal authorities to get resolution.
The lessons learned are two-fold:
1. Have a mental plan of action of what you might do in the case that the very extreme might happen to you (and not just in the case of rape...this goes for regular assault, robbery, and on and on). We've created this surreal little bubble in idyllic American universities where people - both men and women - have this impression that the realities of life are suspended for four years and that bad actors do not exist. Believe me - if you think about the cruel things that can happen beforehand, then it makes dealing with the actuality of the situation a more logical and clear-headed process, and the person will make better decisions.
2. Take the entire process out the hands of university administrators. This should be plain as day, but I don't know why it hasn't happened yet.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 2:48 am to GumBro Jackson
I didnt make it past the young ladys story. Oddly enough, the part of 7 guys willingly participated in rape wasnt the worse part to me. It was where her so called friends whom she called broken and beat down as can be, actually had the nerve to to dissuade her from going to the police. Honestly, frick them and whatever shitty fraternity they joined.
How can you choose a fraternity over the peace and well being of a friend who was brutally raped.. This seriously just pissed me off..
How can you choose a fraternity over the peace and well being of a friend who was brutally raped.. This seriously just pissed me off..
Posted on 11/21/14 at 3:36 am to QJenk
It's a disappointing article to say the least and I won't sit and say that the culture of the university isn't unique. There is certainly institutional pride and elitism (deserved or not) that comes into play that tends to suppress these accounts and proper handling. But let's not pretend that actual sexual assaults within fraternities or out on college campuses is more rampant at UVA vs other universities. I would need to see some very hard data to be persuaded and that data is suspect across all institutions. The article does touch on this pervasive issue but makes it seem like UVA is elite in rape.
Having attended three colleges and visiting several dozen others and seeing their social scenes, UVA does have a very strong Greek scene but I never heard of rape or sexual assault cases like being mentioned on there. The article makes it seem like everyone knows someone who got raped there and which fraternities to avoid being raped at. That's absurd.
All that being said, if the account is true these guys need to go to jail for a very long time. Poor girl. I felt terrible for her.
Abu, you had some great points regarding administrative mid handling. Also agree that going to the police and hospital after rape should be strongly encouraged.
Having attended three colleges and visiting several dozen others and seeing their social scenes, UVA does have a very strong Greek scene but I never heard of rape or sexual assault cases like being mentioned on there. The article makes it seem like everyone knows someone who got raped there and which fraternities to avoid being raped at. That's absurd.
All that being said, if the account is true these guys need to go to jail for a very long time. Poor girl. I felt terrible for her.
Abu, you had some great points regarding administrative mid handling. Also agree that going to the police and hospital after rape should be strongly encouraged.
This post was edited on 11/21/14 at 3:40 am
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