- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Which would you rather?
Posted on 1/12/17 at 9:26 am to BallHawk
Posted on 1/12/17 at 9:26 am to BallHawk
You can't go back and say these are the guys he passed up on, and then select, IN HINDSIGHT, the best players from that draft, sometimes picked 10-20 positions away from where our pick was or would have been.
the 2011 draft was the one to get a really good player in, and it likely wouldn't have made us any better the following year so we would have still gotten AD. DMo/Faried/Mirotic/Jackson/Harris
In 2012, if they don't take Rivers, they take Lamb, and both are moot. From the Rivers pick on down, there wasn't a really good player until 25 picks later with Draymond. There's a few role players, but no difference makers.
Missing out on someone like Crowder/Draymond/Middleton is a good example. There are plenty of really good players drafted in the 2nd round in the NBA today, yet we keep giving away 2nds for nothing.
2013 draft, had we not traded for jrue, would have have MCW or Trey Burke, both underwhelming. We weren't drafting Noel.
Pierre Jackson was a nice find.
2014 draft, had we not traded jrue, and then drafted a PG, likely would have been a big guy like Nurkic, or maybe would have been Saric or McDermot. Jokic was sitting there for that 2nd round pick that we didn't have.
2015 Asik pick would have likely been Dekkar, or Justin Anderson, or Bobby Portis, or Rondae Hollis Jefferson. That would have been nice, but nothign special
2016 great pick in Hield, and while I like Diallo, I thought it was beyond retarded to trade 39 and 40 to get the 33rd pick.
He hasn't drafted that bad. outside of Rivers.
it's the trading away of picks that's been bad, especially in the 2nd round.
If Jrue was healthy, he's still a much better option than MCW/Burke and then someone like Nurkic or McDermot.
the 2011 draft was the one to get a really good player in, and it likely wouldn't have made us any better the following year so we would have still gotten AD. DMo/Faried/Mirotic/Jackson/Harris
In 2012, if they don't take Rivers, they take Lamb, and both are moot. From the Rivers pick on down, there wasn't a really good player until 25 picks later with Draymond. There's a few role players, but no difference makers.
Missing out on someone like Crowder/Draymond/Middleton is a good example. There are plenty of really good players drafted in the 2nd round in the NBA today, yet we keep giving away 2nds for nothing.
2013 draft, had we not traded for jrue, would have have MCW or Trey Burke, both underwhelming. We weren't drafting Noel.
Pierre Jackson was a nice find.
2014 draft, had we not traded jrue, and then drafted a PG, likely would have been a big guy like Nurkic, or maybe would have been Saric or McDermot. Jokic was sitting there for that 2nd round pick that we didn't have.
2015 Asik pick would have likely been Dekkar, or Justin Anderson, or Bobby Portis, or Rondae Hollis Jefferson. That would have been nice, but nothign special
2016 great pick in Hield, and while I like Diallo, I thought it was beyond retarded to trade 39 and 40 to get the 33rd pick.
He hasn't drafted that bad. outside of Rivers.
it's the trading away of picks that's been bad, especially in the 2nd round.
If Jrue was healthy, he's still a much better option than MCW/Burke and then someone like Nurkic or McDermot.
This post was edited on 1/12/17 at 9:29 am
2
Posted on 1/12/17 at 9:54 am to TeddyPadillac
I'm not saying they should have made those picks in hindsight. I'm saying trading away those picks had the team miss out on the possibility of selecting those guys or using them to the advantage if someone else wanted them in our spot. We had opportunities to accumulate assets but didn't.
Posted on 1/12/17 at 9:56 am to TeddyPadillac
Nice post.
Agreed, really hard to judge Demps on ability to draft b/c he's just traded so many picks.
2015 is the big miss.
This saves us what, over $20M dollars...? Dekkar, RHJ, Anderson can all do what we are paying Solomon Hill $12M to do. We are paying Asik 7 figures to not play.
Yes, you can get lucky with a Jokic, Draymond, Middleton etc in the draft. Those are the rare exceptions. The more picks you have, the more likely you are able to find those key role players that can save you 10s of millions of dollars.
Agreed, really hard to judge Demps on ability to draft b/c he's just traded so many picks.
2015 is the big miss.
quote:
2015 Asik pick would have likely been Dekkar, or Justin Anderson, or Bobby Portis, or Rondae Hollis Jefferson. That would have been nice, but nothign special
This saves us what, over $20M dollars...? Dekkar, RHJ, Anderson can all do what we are paying Solomon Hill $12M to do. We are paying Asik 7 figures to not play.
Yes, you can get lucky with a Jokic, Draymond, Middleton etc in the draft. Those are the rare exceptions. The more picks you have, the more likely you are able to find those key role players that can save you 10s of millions of dollars.
Posted on 1/12/17 at 10:05 am to Toula
quote:
Yes, you can get lucky with a Jokic, Draymond, Middleton etc in the draft. Those are the rare exceptions. The more picks you have, the more likely you are able to find those key role players that can save you 10s of millions of dollars.
BINGO!
Every year there are 2nd round picks that turn into starters, yet we rarely ever make picks in the 2nd round.
There's nothing guaranteed about them, so who gives a shite if they don't pan out. they cost you next to nothing.
i'm not as upset about not having the first round picks, as I am about not having the second round picks these last few years.
There's usually a good 5 to 6 guys every year drafted in the 30 pick 2nd round that turn out pretty good, sometimes really good. so you have a good 15% chance to get a good player in there. the odds are in your favor to find a difference maker in the 2nd round after 5 years worth of picks, especially when you're picking in the 30's.
If you make 1 pick every 5 years in the 2nd round, the likelihood of finding the diamond in the rough is pretty close to nothing.
Posted on 1/12/17 at 10:09 am to BallHawk
quote:
. We had opportunities to accumulate assets but didn't.
This is the whole Jrue argument.
Were those assets, MCW or Burke, and then Nurkic or Saric or McDermot better than Jrue? I dont' think so, even the miss 40 games every season Jrue is better. Had he been healthy the last 4 years it would have been a great trade.
The Asik trade would have netted us a nice SF, but that guy wouldn't have been a game changer. It would have at least allowed us to not overpay for Hill and Asik, but we likely would have overpaid for some other center in that offseason had we not gotten Asik in the trade.
those opportunities we had by trading away those 3 picks really weren't all that great, in highsight, but I agree with you that i'd like those opportunities, and I want more of them.
Posted on 1/12/17 at 12:37 pm to htran90
yes, the draft is no guarantee. they can find a useful player (like a Dekker), perhaps even strike gold on a guy like Myles Turner or, please baby jesus, Giannis from that 10-15 range.
that's a lot different point than "Dekker is better than Russell and Noel" and then using dubious stats to compare them. Russell is a 20yo primary ballhandler putting up 20/5/6 PER 36. yes, he needs to become more efficient and better in several areas. yet, comparing his growth to Dekker via efficiency w/o regard for their respective roles (bench player v starter, 27% USG v 15% USG) and teammates (bottom 7 team v top 5 team) is ludicrous.
but i agree completely on the larger point- they can't blow it up b/c of Davis. and that
barring a Davis/Holiday injury, which no one should want, it's just not feasible.
that's a lot different point than "Dekker is better than Russell and Noel" and then using dubious stats to compare them. Russell is a 20yo primary ballhandler putting up 20/5/6 PER 36. yes, he needs to become more efficient and better in several areas. yet, comparing his growth to Dekker via efficiency w/o regard for their respective roles (bench player v starter, 27% USG v 15% USG) and teammates (bottom 7 team v top 5 team) is ludicrous.
but i agree completely on the larger point- they can't blow it up b/c of Davis. and that
quote:
Playoffs and trying to find talent > blowing it up and rolling the dice
barring a Davis/Holiday injury, which no one should want, it's just not feasible.
Posted on 1/12/17 at 12:49 pm to corndeaux
The goal should be always improvement and playoffs. We decided to forego money and picks for vets which is doubling down and failing.
For every asik deal we made it in costed us at least an additional 10mil. The money we spent on him plus the money we spent on a player of need we didn't draft.
The draft is such a crapshoot, especially after your top choices are off the board. Even then it's hard to say if a guy will be guaranteed or not. Even this year's rookies were considered elite potential (Brown and Ingram), but they just look bad. Vastly different than guys like Parker and Wiggins for sure.
For every asik deal we made it in costed us at least an additional 10mil. The money we spent on him plus the money we spent on a player of need we didn't draft.
The draft is such a crapshoot, especially after your top choices are off the board. Even then it's hard to say if a guy will be guaranteed or not. Even this year's rookies were considered elite potential (Brown and Ingram), but they just look bad. Vastly different than guys like Parker and Wiggins for sure.
Posted on 1/12/17 at 4:51 pm to htran90
not sure what you're trying to say-
Demps is foolish for ignoring the draft, but high draft picks aren't that great b/c two highly thought of rookies pegged as long term projects look like...long term projects 3 months into their careers?
from what i've seen (admittedly not a ton) of either guy this season, i'd be ecstatic if the Pels had Ingram or Brown, warts and all
Demps is foolish for ignoring the draft, but high draft picks aren't that great b/c two highly thought of rookies pegged as long term projects look like...long term projects 3 months into their careers?
from what i've seen (admittedly not a ton) of either guy this season, i'd be ecstatic if the Pels had Ingram or Brown, warts and all
Posted on 1/12/17 at 5:18 pm to corndeaux
I shouldn't be posting on my phone, lol.
The draft is a big crapshoot, but picking late doesn't deny you the opportunity of finding a gem or quality player, trading it does though. If you find a quality player, you get them for cheap for 4-5 years and typically it will fill a need on your team (SF - Dekker for example). It also wouldn't have limited us financially to spend $$ on a second need (C - Asik when he's a free agent). I mean bird rule and such, but I believe we had space to sign him with a little wiggle room (letting Ajinca walk, etc).
By trading away picks, we lose the rookie scale (Dekker) to guarantee one position is shored (Asik), but the worst part is, we invested money for a SF who wasn't even a complete player...he was literally as much of a project signing as a draft pick. Except we pay him 3-4 times as much as a rookie...
The draft is a big crapshoot, but picking late doesn't deny you the opportunity of finding a gem or quality player, trading it does though. If you find a quality player, you get them for cheap for 4-5 years and typically it will fill a need on your team (SF - Dekker for example). It also wouldn't have limited us financially to spend $$ on a second need (C - Asik when he's a free agent). I mean bird rule and such, but I believe we had space to sign him with a little wiggle room (letting Ajinca walk, etc).
By trading away picks, we lose the rookie scale (Dekker) to guarantee one position is shored (Asik), but the worst part is, we invested money for a SF who wasn't even a complete player...he was literally as much of a project signing as a draft pick. Except we pay him 3-4 times as much as a rookie...
This post was edited on 1/12/17 at 5:20 pm
Posted on 1/12/17 at 5:47 pm to htran90
opportunity cost is dells undoing in team building
none of his gambles (and they have been gambles) have worked
it didn't have to be this way
none of his gambles (and they have been gambles) have worked
it didn't have to be this way
Posted on 1/12/17 at 7:10 pm to htran90
I would love for the pels to make the playoffs and then find a gem in the draft like y'all are saying but what are the odds of that happening. There is no past example of the pelicans being able to find a good player while drafting in the teens. And I really don't trust the gm to bring in the players we need to make a serious playoff run.
Posted on 1/13/17 at 6:16 am to hassan101
For many reasons, it would benefit this franchise to make the playoffs this season. They're not rebuilding the roster wi th a single draftpick this time around
This post was edited on 1/13/17 at 6:49 am
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:04 am to htran90
Another point on drafts, you also can't look at who was drafted at/around our pick and say that's who we would have ended up. Buy trading it, we also miss out on other potential offers for the pick during the draft.
Example, Nuggets went into that 2015 draft with picks 11 and 42. Came out with Gary Harris, Nurkic, and Jokic.
Example, Nuggets went into that 2015 draft with picks 11 and 42. Came out with Gary Harris, Nurkic, and Jokic.
Posted on 1/13/17 at 8:47 am to chesty
Playoffs or bust!
Posted on 1/13/17 at 9:27 am to Toula
That's what I was trying emphasize on my previous posts with Dell's draft history. There were so many missed opportunities.
Posted on 1/13/17 at 9:52 am to BallHawk
But I feel like we also miss out in free agency for the most part. So it's like a lose lose situation. 
Posted on 1/13/17 at 10:07 am to hassan101
if we make the playoffs, our first round pick will be based off of upside, there are no players in the 16-20 range that will be contributing much their rookie first year
I still wouldn't mind making the playoffs, but it's either push for the playoffs or tank.. in between the two is a wasted year
I still wouldn't mind making the playoffs, but it's either push for the playoffs or tank.. in between the two is a wasted year
Posted on 1/14/17 at 7:35 am to htran90
gotcha- I agree. they have to start cultivating players internally. 2 top 34 picks in back to back drafts is a great way to start building up depth/culture
im not as down on Hill as most seem to be. like his defense a lot. offense has been fine (relative to his skill) for me. then again, I wasn't expecting him to be the offensive 3 everyone wants.
i think he's clearly a better player than Dekker right now. but cost matters. growth matters. so we'll see how it shakes out over the next few years
im not as down on Hill as most seem to be. like his defense a lot. offense has been fine (relative to his skill) for me. then again, I wasn't expecting him to be the offensive 3 everyone wants.
i think he's clearly a better player than Dekker right now. but cost matters. growth matters. so we'll see how it shakes out over the next few years
Posted on 1/14/17 at 7:57 am to corndeaux
The team is a .500 team since Jrue returned from his family leave. They are actually 14-11 if you remove the other 3 games he missed after he returned. So the team is much better when their second best player is on the court. The you have Buddy that has drastically improved. The Pelicans are not a high draft pick team. They would have to tabk on purpose and they need to create a winning culture to being enthusiasm back to the organization.
Posted on 1/14/17 at 8:32 am to Colonel Flagg
Big article by TBW today on Reke v Jrue...
Having phone issues, so someone else please link.
Having phone issues, so someone else please link.
Page 3 of 6
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News