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Started By
Message
re: Kevin Arnovitz doesn't think Jrue will re-sign with Pelicans
Posted on 6/20/17 at 8:56 am to ShamelessPel
Posted on 6/20/17 at 8:56 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
How often have teams chased top flight free agents at the same position as the main player they're courting?
"contingency plan" doesnt mean what you think it does
quote:
cting like the Pelicans are going to just chase Holiday around if he implied he's probably leaving as heavily as you just did
the only person who has said the Pels will "just chase Holiday around" is you.
they want to keep Holiday and have made public statements indicating how much they value him. you appear to be taking public comments from management at face value, which is typically foolish.
going back to "contingency plan," if they do chase him around, that is a Pels problem, not a Holiday one. if as ATL points out, McNamara is right about a salary line, they seem to have done their homework and would be ready to move on.
quote:
these guys are miraculously healthy in contract years
which wasn't your point. you brought up how much time he missed over the years like he was pulling one over on the poor Pels.
here is the SI piece where Holiday talks about the team ignoring his doctor's recommendation for a minutes limit leading to him going out in January of 2015
quote:
Regarding the wife comment
i'm not engaging with that shite other than to echo what was said before- it is pathetic
1
Posted on 6/20/17 at 8:59 am to Cap Crunch
quote:
I don't get what you think Jrue owes the Pelicans.
He got traded here, had to deal with mishandled injuries, and took time off to take care of his wife and kid. When he and his family were healthy, he played well for us.
It didn't work out for either party and now he is looking elsewhere. I don't understand why you are trying to make Jrue out to be the bad guy here.
I love how it's ok for a fanbase to universally pan a superstar when he demands a trade in much crappier circumstances yet a lesser star, but still a big name player, gets to skate by from criticism while he plays out his deal and potentially leverages the team. Consistency is lacking here.
quote:
When he and his family were healthy, he played well for us
Well, that's entirely debatable on the played well part. It didn't take a rocket scientist to see Jrue isn't the perfect fit as a PG next to AD/Boogie, which is odd because theoretically many PGs would be salivating at that prospect.
Maybe my first hand contact with brain tumors (an immediate family member having one the size of an egg that was there ten years and has come back) and knowing that if the tumor was small enough, it's not even that big of a deal as long as it's not malignant, which I can promise you it wasn't or we would have heard the dreaded C word. That whole situation was overblown. I've lived it, and people have the right to think its BS he was away from the team that long, essentially killing our season before it even started.
The team owes Holiday nothing while Holiday owes the team nothing. Yet in this situation, the team is at a serious disadvantage by being disingenuous while the player can screw em up and down Bourbon St. in this climate.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 9:09 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
I love how it's ok for a fanbase to universally pan a superstar when he demands a trade in much crappier circumstances yet a lesser star, but still a big name player, gets to skate by from criticism while he plays out his deal and potentially leverages the team.
The problem is you're being premature based largely on what you think another human being that you have very limited information on thinks. You did that back in October when you said you wouldn't be surprised if Holiday was out until January.
This is how the Free Agency process works. Typically unless teams throw a max or above market value at a player they go out on the market and try and find the best deals they can. It's not personal, it's just business. MM thinks the Pels are going to go after Lowry. To max Lowry they probably have to let Holiday walk. The lack of loyalty and good faith is a 2 way street in the NBA.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 9:13 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
f the Pelicans had known last season Holiday was going to completely leverage the Pels to leave in the offseason, there's likely zero chance he's still on the team
Really?? Like they traded Ryan Anderson and Eric Gordon before they walked?
But there's a zero chance he'da been on the roster?
Posted on 6/20/17 at 9:13 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
it's ok for a fanbase to universally pan a superstar when he demands a trade in much crappier circumstances yet a lesser star, but still a big name player, gets to skate by from criticism
both complaints are dumb.
Holiday is a free agent. he is free to do whatever he wants.
Paul busted his arse and played exquisite basketball on a rudderless, sinking, broke ship. he didnt take games off like Vince Carter or Kobe (in the playoffs no less).
Posted on 6/20/17 at 9:25 am to corndeaux
I can't imagine a scenario that Jrue goes to a better team than ours for more than what we offer him money wise.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 9:27 am to corndeaux
quote:
corndeaux
You are holier than thou, we get it. You're putting words in my mouth. You're putting a TON of words in my mouth. The time missed portion is barely on my radar in these conversations other than the fact that you guys keep blaming the medical staff. I've simply pointed out that we blast the staff, yet these guys bounce back in contract years like clockwork. I have downright blasted this medical staff on many occasions and even admitted the negative assessment is likely the correct one, IN THIS THREAD. You're ignoring any aspect of what I've said that isn't easy to pick apart and take a sentence from, twisting said sentence into your narrative. It really makes no sense why you are defending Holiday this fervently.
If you want to come in hot and try to make me look bad, at least be honest about it instead of these shitposts where you blatantly misrepresent everything I'm saying.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 9:31 am to Lester Earl
quote:
Really?? Like they traded Ryan Anderson and Eric Gordon before they walked?
But there's a zero chance he'da been on the roster?
Demps was actively shopping Ryno and Gordon at the deadline. But that's cute to just ignore that part. We barely even pursued them in free agency, and they CERTAINLY were not the focus of our free agent plans and marketing plans to end the regular season.
But good one. You got me there.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 9:35 am to ShamelessPel
quote:Had offers including 1st round picks and turned them down. Smart move.
Demps was actively shopping Ryno and Gordon at the deadline.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 9:40 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
What has Holiday done in the last 4 years for this organization? He's been hurt, often played sparingly when his status was up in the air, and took his sweet arse time to the start of last season when we absolutely needed him.
that was the first paragraph in one of your posts
quote:
The time missed portion is barely on my radar in these conversations
if you say so
quote:
If you want to come in hot and try to make me look bad
you're doing that to yourself.
if you cant defend what you're writing and are resorting to ad hominem attacks, then you know you said some dumb things.
quote:
It really makes no sense why you are defending Holiday this fervently
because your posts have been worth pushing back on
Posted on 6/20/17 at 9:40 am to NOSHAU
quote:
Had offers including 1st round picks and turned them down. Smart move.
You think he turned down a first round pick for Ryno that didn't have any other strings attached? I'd be really curious to see where you came up with that.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 9:53 am to corndeaux
quote:
shamelesspel
quote:
Another fairy tale ending for someone on the team with the terrible medical staff. As much as it's easy and I even concur with the likelihood that our staff does suck, these guys are miraculously healthy in contract years. That has to go into your opinion when talking about our staff.
There's a big difference between being critical of him coming back well into the season last year and talking about his injuries leading up to it. It's just plain fact that he missed a ton of time due to injury, and the one season he was good to go, we had to wait on him to get here.
Your posts are filled with venom. My earlier posts at least attempt discourse.
quote:
you're doing that to yourself.
if you cant defend what you're writing and are resorting to ad hominem attacks, then you know you said some dumb things.
You know what you're doing by pulling out little snippets of a quote in an entire paragraph. You have intentionally left out parts that you might possibly agree with just for the sake of argument. I'm not sure why you're grinding your axe here.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 10:08 am to ShamelessPel
Dell was offered a late 1st [ It was a future 1st not for a 1st in the 2016 draft - I think it was a 2018 or 2019 1st) for Ryno and turned it down. This came from an NBA insider who I just happened to sit next to on a flight. Take it for what it is worth.
He didn't really have a good explanation on why Dell would have turned that offer down. It was pretty clear that the new coaching staff was not particularly fond of Ryno. Told me at one point they sat down with Ryno and asked "what can you actually do on defense?"
He didn't really have a good explanation on why Dell would have turned that offer down. It was pretty clear that the new coaching staff was not particularly fond of Ryno. Told me at one point they sat down with Ryno and asked "what can you actually do on defense?"
This post was edited on 6/20/17 at 10:09 am
Posted on 6/20/17 at 10:15 am to TheJruth
quote:Consistent with what I recall - a 2018 1st rounder.
Dell was offered a late 1st [ It was a future 1st not for a 1st in the 2016 draft - I think it was a 2018 or 2019 1st) for Ryno and turned it down. This came from an NBA insider who I just happened to sit next to on a flight. Take it for what it is worth.
He didn't really have a good explanation on why Dell would have turned that offer down. It was pretty clear that the new coaching staff was not particularly fond of Ryno. Told me at one point they sat down with Ryno and asked "what can you actually do on defense?"
Posted on 6/20/17 at 10:17 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
Your posts are filled with venom. My earlier posts at least attempt discourse
lol, this was your first post in this thread:
quote:
Honestly he's too much of a prissy bitch to like this city. Bye. What a disappointment. I remember watching a young Holiday in Philly thinking this dude is a baller. Now his wife walks around with his balls in her purse and he's lost all that edge and fire on the court.
Great attempt at discourse there
Posted on 6/20/17 at 10:20 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
Your posts are filled with venom. My earlier posts at least attempt discourse
quote:
Honestly he's too much of a prissy bitch to like this city. Bye. What a disappointment. I remember watching a young Holiday in Philly thinking this dude is a baller. Now his wife walks around with his balls in her purse and he's lost all that edge and fire on the court.
i'm stating what i think is happening and where i think you're missing the mark. not sure why you must read any push back or disagreement as "venom." i'm not calling you names or insisting on bad faith from you
the funny thing about all of this is that i dont think we disagree too much on Holiday's worth as a player. you seem to have already written the story (which may not even happen) that the Pels will wait for Holiday, who ends up walking anyway, thus missing out on other moves, and/or offer him more money than he's worth to stay.
the difference, it appears to me, is that for you, that scenario is all Holiday's fault.
for me, the Pels have agency. they don't have to wait for Holiday or pay him more than they think he is worth. especially, if there is doubt about his fit in a new, more off ball role
Posted on 6/20/17 at 10:29 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
Maybe my first hand contact with brain tumors (an immediate family member having one the size of an egg that was there ten years and has come back) and knowing that if the tumor was small enough, it's not even that big of a deal as long as it's not malignant, which I can promise you it wasn't or we would have heard the dreaded C word. That whole situation was overblown. I've lived it, and people have the right to think its BS he was away from the team that long, essentially killing our season before it even started.
With all due offense, you are an idiot. My cousin had a "benign" central neurocytoma which rapidly caused her to be confined to a wheelchair, migraines, and significant cognitive impairment and behavorial change before surgery. She had surgical resection of the tumor and spent over a year re-learning how to walk and talk again. She still suffers from limb weakness and cognitive deficit.
Jrue's wife was diagnosed with a meningioma while pregnant. The location and symptoms definitely troubled her doctors and would freak me out if it happened to my wife. If it was "no big deal" or "overblown", there is NO way the doctors would induce early labor to rush a craniotomy.
People who think it was BS that he ws away from the team so long because he was with his wife whil recovering from brain surgery immediately following the birth of his daughter are assholes.
This post was edited on 6/20/17 at 10:31 am
Posted on 6/20/17 at 10:45 am to corndeaux
quote:
the difference, it appears to me, is that for you, that scenario is all Holiday's fault.
for me, the Pels have agency. they don't have to wait for Holiday or pay him more than they think he is worth. especially, if there is doubt about his fit in a new, more off ball role
I've admitted I think Jrue likes it here well enough and Lauren likely doesn't. It isn't hard to connect one dot to the next.
Sorry if my faith in Dell Demps is lacking. I've said multiple times that if Dell allows himself to get played, it's on him and he's an idiot for allowing it.
The reality though is that, in this case, for the Pelicans to go after Kyle Lowry or the like, they would have to put serious pressure on Holiday at a pipe dream scenario for them. I don't think it happens. Sure, I'd love for Dell to not double down because he traded two firsts for Holiday. His past record indicates he'd rather double down though. The team spent plenty of time and energy trying to court Holiday at the end of last season. All Dell did was put more pressure on himself by calling him the 3rd in the big 3.
These players need their egos massaged. To go after Lowry and Holiday at the same time, the team is saying that neither is THEIR GUY, but rather they would like either of them. Like I've pointed out, it isn't often you see teams chase the same position player in free agency. Now maybe you're right and the Pelicans see the writing on the wall, write off Holiday, and pursue the PG they want on July 1st. Asking that of Demps is asking him to be doing things at a level we simply have never seen from him, ESPECIALLY when it comes to free agency.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 10:50 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
To go after Lowry and Holiday at the same time
That's not financially possible unless you dump pretty much everyone not named AD/DC/Holiday including Solo and Moore. If they go after Lowry it means they aren't planning to keep Holiday.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 10:56 am to TigerinATL
I think he means courting Lowry as a contingency 9at the same time) if Jrue doesn't sign. However Lowry is not an option. If they aren't willing to go above AD's salary for Jrue, they won't for Lowry. Lowry wants and is going to be offered big $$$ from Toronto and proably another team. Lowry is not going to take less money to come to a non-playoff team in a small market.
This post was edited on 6/20/17 at 10:57 am
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