Started By
Message

re: Jeff Teague or Dennis Schroeder

Posted on 1/27/16 at 7:20 pm to
Posted by NOSHAU
Member since Feb 2012
12030 posts
Posted on 1/27/16 at 7:20 pm to
Per 36 is simply a hypothetical crutch many like to use to prove their point. If the player does not play 36 minutes, the stat is useless. Scott has played 750 minutes less, so you cannot say he gives the same thing as Anderson does.
Posted by GynoSandberg
Member since Jan 2006
72079 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 12:27 am to
You can watch him and see his game. The only difference is he plays on a really good team and Anderson does not. Anderson HAS to play 30+ minutes on this team. He's a complimentary player on a contender; and it's not really him, it's guys with his skill set in general. Look at the top team, they don't have Ryan Andersons playing 30+ a night
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 6:58 am to
Anderson, straight up, for Teague or Schroder? Do people know what the Hawks roster looks like?

ATL is going to deal a starting caliber NBA pg on a good contract for an expiring stretch PF that would be their 4th big? Really?

Anderson has value across the league, but certainly not to that team.

Same thing with Cleveland and Asik. They already have their own fairly useless 5 on a long term deal in Varejao. Mozgov is better than Asik and he isnt really the problem for them. Spending a combined $35M/ year on Love/Thompson when they can't play together v good teams is their issue. And TT is a Klutch guy, so I think I know how this ends...

They aren't beating GS/SAS unless they get another wing and move LeBron to the 4/5 in that series. And, no, Eric Gordon does not count as wing help for a title contending team.
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 7:11 am to
quote:

hypothetical crutch


Ugh. It's a players performance based on per minute stats. There's nothing hypothetical about what they do on the court. Certainly, if a guy only plays 15 MPG, there's a lot of noise. But that doesn't mean it's a worthless statistic.

Same time, Mike Scott has been in the league for years. His skill set is well known and Anderson would be seeing the same minutes on that team.
Posted by VOR
Member since Apr 2009
63694 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 7:54 am to
quote:

ATL is going to deal a starting caliber NBA pg on a good contract for an expiring stretch PF that would be their 4th big? Really?

Anderson has value across the league, but certainly not to that team.


When I look at rumored trades or proposed trades it seems that most of the time it involves our acquiring guards or another 5/4. I want to figure out a way to substantially upgrade the 3. I know it's easier said than done, and I've pretty much resigned myself to wait until the offseason.
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
61608 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 8:37 am to
quote:

I want to figure out a way to substantially upgrade the 3


Draft/trade and develop. There isn't a quick fix. Batum's going to get max money not because he's a max player, but because he's the best of a position that is in short supply and becoming very necessary to contend. That's why so many people were ready to throw away the season after 10 games, the likely top 2 picks in the draft project to be stud SFs.
Posted by Jester
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
34446 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 8:57 am to
quote:

Ugh. It's a players performance based on per minute stats. There's nothing hypothetical about what they do on the court. Certainly, if a guy only plays 15 MPG, there's a lot of noise. But that doesn't mean it's a worthless statistic.


All true. I think the problems occur when people act like per 36 makes for a obvious, direct comparison. AD usually draws top defenders. His backup draws marginal defenders.
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
61608 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 9:06 am to
Per 36 isn't good to project Aaron Gray as a starter as many people wanted to do with a guy that wasn't even an every game backup, but it is good for comparing guys in similar tiers but different minutes to each other. I also find it useful for seeing how a player compares to his previous years.
This post was edited on 1/28/16 at 9:07 am
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
61608 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 11:27 am to
David Fisher came up with multiple "blow it up" trades that move most of our tradeable assets including the 2016 pick. LINK

Pels get Kelly Oubre, Ronde Hollis-Jefferson, Dennis Schroeder, Justin Holiday, Joe Johnson, Jarrett Jack

Hawks get Norris Cole, Pels 2016 1st

Nets get Gordon, Tyreke, Ajinca

Wizards get Ryno

So 2 young wings with prototypical frames and a young guard. Your core is now:

Schroeder
Jrue
QPon/Oubre/RHJ
AD/Cunningham
Asik

Cap Space $27 million.

If you'd rather draft a guard than trade for Schroeder it doesn't really change much. Shift QPon to backup SG, sign a vet SF like Dudley and a few bigs to 1 year deals and you could have this core plus about $38 million in cap space the following year, and you could free up another $10.5 million by dumping Asik on someone, and $16 million if you don't resign Jrue. So in 2017 you could have enough for 2 Max players or Jrue, a Max player and a nice starter in addition to:

AD
Jrue (if you resign him)
Schroeder or 2016 1st
Oubre
RHJ
QPon
Cunningham
This post was edited on 1/28/16 at 11:29 am
Posted by GynoSandberg
Member since Jan 2006
72079 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 11:32 am to
I don't see the motivation from Brooklyn or atlanta's side
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
61608 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 11:46 am to
quote:

I don't see the motivation from Brooklyn


Brooklyn supposedly wants to win this year. I've seen/heard that from multiple sources after the FO house cleaning. It seems crazy, but so is their owner. I think they want to give Boston as bad of a pick as possible. Joe Johnson is playing like garbage, Jack is out for the year. I don't know how long he'll be out, but RHJ is injured too. Yes they give up their only young piece, but they get 3 players that can play (assuming the deal happens closer to the deadline and Gordon's return), a starting quality PG on a reasonable deal, a backup center on a reasonable deal, which they don't really have, and I think they'd have a good shot at resigning Gordon since they like throwing money around. RHJ is a lot for Brooklyn to give up, but they're getting a decent amount back considering their situation.

quote:

or atlanta's side


If Atlanta doesn't blow it up and chooses Teague, a 1st for Schroeder seems fair but you probably need to get a 3rd team involved to help them win now. But I'm not all that interested in Schroeder, I think I'd rather take my chances with the pick.
This post was edited on 1/28/16 at 11:47 am
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
25908 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 12:09 pm to
anything that brings in younger talent i'm on board with.

It's frustrating looking at everyone else's roster and seeing youth and potential.

Outside of AD, we have no future on this roster. Everyone is either at their prime, which isn't great, or past it, apart from AD.

That's what happens when you don't draft anyone b/c you dont' have draft picks.
2015 - no picks
2014 - no picks
2013 - no picks got Jrue
2012 - AD and Rivers, a draft loaded with good players in the first 22 not named Rivers or Marshall or White
2011 - no picks
2010 - Brackins and QPon
2009 - Collison
2008 - no picks
2007 - Julian Wright
2006 - two top 15 picks, both terrible, Armstrong and Simmons


8 picks in 10 years, with 5 years with no picks, 4 of the picks were down right awful, 1 will end up being being awful and the two you drafted that were ok, you traded away, and the outlier being AD.

Who goes 10 years drafting only 1 player worth a shite?

Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
30150 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 12:21 pm to
Route 1: Draft, develop, and improve
Route 2: Free Agency and improve
Route 3: Trade picks and assets for young vets and improve

1: SAS, GS, and OKC; every other team
2: Major market teams or teams with lots of space
3: Us

we're the only idiots who decided to take route 3 and failed miserably at it.

I get it, 1st rounders outside of the top prospects are all about development and finding a fit. A lot fail, but at the same time there are players who develop. Issue is, DD decided to decrease the risk by getting young vets with name recognition that don't fit.

In what world does this work
4 1st rounders (1 being Rivers), 1 starting center (Lopez), and a decent backup PG (Vasquez)

for
Starting PG (Holiday), a combo guard (Evans) when you have a better one who can shoot (Gordon), and another worse starting center (Asik).

All while trying to duct tape (QPon, Cunningham, and Gee) the arguably most important position in this decade, small forward.

That is ridiculously stupid
Posted by LosLobos111
Austere
Member since Feb 2011
45385 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 1:01 pm to
Does MT5 count? He did pretty well

Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
25908 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 1:11 pm to
quote:

Does MT5 count? He did pretty well



forgot about him. He's a bit of an outlier as well, being that he was picked 43rd, and then we had an idiot coach drive him away, so sure.
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 2:11 pm to
quote:

want to figure out a way to substantially upgrade the 3


quote:

easier said than done, and I've pretty much resigned myself to wait until the offseason.


It is arguably the most coveted position in the league right now. Teams aren't giving away significant options at that spot for what the Pelicans will likely offer. They have to take a shot on a lesser player, like a Pondexter, or in the draft.

It's been frustrating watching them basically avoid trying to improve that spot. Babbitt, Miller, Salmons, and Aminu were the only guys they gave a shot there until trading for Pondexter. That's over multiple seasons too. I find it hard to believe there isn't a wing willing to take a minimum who would have been better than some of the end of bench guards and bigs they've signed recently.
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 2:15 pm to
This article from TBW is pretty good.

To me, this quote nails it.

quote:

The organization, as a whole, is impatient with almost everything. Practically the only things where the organization is not impatient are with trades & with Anthony Davis. That's it. And to me, that's the scariest part. Not that we're losing or we've changed our system -- those are all by-products of the single thing that scares me - our organization's impatience



You ask about turning all those assets into what they currently have, and this quote speaks to that directly. That type of scenario is just what bad NBA organizations do. At the moment, the Pels are just a bad organization.
Posted by Jester
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
34446 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 2:32 pm to
quote:

2006 - two top 15 picks, both terrible, Armstrong and Simmons


Who did we pass on?

Thabo Sefolosha
Rajon Rondo
Kyle Lowry
Steve Novak
Daniel Gibson
Paul Millsap
Posted by Solo
Member since Aug 2008
8246 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 2:53 pm to
They drafted CP3 in 2005, so Rondo/Lowry can be forgiven. Thabo was definitely an option, but they were looking for bigs. Regardless, this was one of the worst drafts from top to bottom.

31 teams passed on Millsap.
Posted by CocoLoco
Member since Jan 2012
29108 posts
Posted on 1/28/16 at 3:08 pm to
Schroder is very similar to Rondo
first pageprev pagePage 3 of 4Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitterInstagram