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Message
re: Great Perspective from Paul Flannery
Posted on 4/24/15 at 4:33 pm to TigerinATL
Posted on 4/24/15 at 4:33 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Tyreke killed the offensive flow in the 4th when he came back in for Jrue, and Gordon was cold all game. Within 2 plays of Jrue going out I wanted him back in. To me that is where the game was lost. Sure there are plenty of problems to point out, but we've seen it all year, when we need smart decisions to be made in crunch time, Tyreke isn't the guy you want guiding the team. He's the guy you want ramming the ball down the other team's throat the rest of game so they are tired in crunch time.
1000% AGREED
Up 20 to start the 4rd quarter the Pels answered every GS run through the first 6 minutes of the 4th mostly due to the hot shooting of Anderson. With about 5:30 left and up 15 and the ball after Anderson had hit 2/3 fade away jumpers from the corner consecutively, what do we do? Everybody that had been watching the flow of the game to that point would think run some clock and try to get the ball to Anderson again in isolation. Insert the turning point in the game in my opinion. Tyreke Evans with the ball at the top of the key relatively early in the shot clock drives to the basket in a clogged lane wildly like he is possessed in the movie Poltergeist and throws up a desperate shot that is blocked by Thompson. Curry comes down hits 2 FTs and Evans comes down the next possession AND turns the ball over. Evans equals LOW Basketball IQ and the opposite of what is defined as HERO BALL....
I really would like to see if the Pelicans could move Evans and Asik (seems unlikely because who wants this 7' no talent) in the offseason. Asik is due 12 million next year which seem like grand theft. I'm still baffled that we gave up a #1 for him. I'm hoping I read the terms of the trade correct and we get to keep this year 1st round pick because it is protected if it falls 1-3 or 20-30 and based on our record we would draft 18th. Those terms carry out to 2019 which if the Pelicans pick doesn't fall 4-19 in the 1st round, the Rockets would eventually get their 2020 2nd round pick. Whoever made the Asik trade should be fired PERIOD!!
This post was edited on 4/27/15 at 10:47 am
2
Posted on 4/24/15 at 4:38 pm to LSU_Richoux
Tyreke is an asset that needs to be used better. There's a reason he graded out as our second best player all season. If he wasn't the least clutch player on our team being given every chance by the staff to close games, no one here would even consider trading him. Coaches keep putting him in spots or at least condoning his usage in spots he is clearly not suited for.
Posted on 4/24/15 at 4:48 pm to corndeaux
i want to hear some great perspective, and i'll read that article
it wont be today though...
it wont be today though...
Posted on 4/24/15 at 4:50 pm to ShamelessPel
I think Tyreke has had the two best years of his career with us. He makes boneheaded decisions, but he's balled for us the last 2 years.
Problem is Jrue not being able to stay healthy. He's one of our few high IQ players, he calms the team down in tight spots, and he's the who you'd give the ball to in late game situtations when Tyreke is tired and not all there.
As of now, Tyreke is the only ballhandler we have. Gordon has no ballhandling ability, so it basically leaves you with Tyreke or Cole off the bench.
Problem is Jrue not being able to stay healthy. He's one of our few high IQ players, he calms the team down in tight spots, and he's the who you'd give the ball to in late game situtations when Tyreke is tired and not all there.
As of now, Tyreke is the only ballhandler we have. Gordon has no ballhandling ability, so it basically leaves you with Tyreke or Cole off the bench.
Posted on 4/24/15 at 4:52 pm to LSU_Richoux
quote:
Asik is due 12 million next year which seem like grand theft
No he isn't, that is his cap hold, he isn't under contract for next year.
quote:
I'm still baffled that we gave up a #1 for him.
We traded for him because we get his Bird Rights meaning we can ignore the salary cap to resign him. If we didn't we'd be starting Stiemsma level talent at center for 3 years in a row before we got the cap space to go after a better than minimum center. You don't post here much, have you gotten to watch the Pels much this year? Asik has his flaws but he has his strengths too, and we're a much better team with him vs. a minimum level center.
Posted on 4/24/15 at 5:35 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
No he isn't, that is his cap hold, he isn't under contract for next year.
sorry my bad, i must have read that wrong that's for the clarification
quote:
We traded for him because we get his Bird Rights meaning we can ignore the salary cap to resign him. If we didn't we'd be starting Stiemsma level talent at center for 3 years in a row before we got the cap space to go after a better than minimum center. You don't post here much, have you gotten to watch the Pels much this year? Asik has his flaws but he has his strengths too, and we're a much better team with him vs. a minimum level center.
I've watched the majority of the Pelicans games this year and attended a few in addition to being a season ticket holder in year's past. Asik provides rim protection and rebounding. When he is not doing that, he is an extreme liability. He doesn't run the floor well neither does he move that well in the paint on offense or defense. I blame our GM Demps if we have to suffer through 3 years in a row of Siemsma level talent. He has done a very poor job of gambling away our draft picks and managing the draft. Outside of Anthony Davis falling in our laps, I give him a F.
2010 Cole Alrich #11 overall pick
2011 No 1st round pick traded #19 overall pick away
2012 Anthony Davis #1 overall and Austin Rivers #10 overal
2013 Nerlens Noel #6 overall traded to Philly as part of Holiday deal
2014 No 1st round pick traded away #10 pick as part of Holiday deal above
Obviously Demps has not valued draft picks and put more stock in using draft picks to leverage in trades to acquire in his mind proven talent. The 2011 draft alone was a pretty stacked draft where you find major contributors at ALL positions. Nerlens Noel had a pretty good 2nd year season with the 76ers. The #10 pick they traded in the 2014 draft to 76ers was used to draft Elfred Payton.
This post was edited on 4/24/15 at 6:17 pm
Posted on 4/24/15 at 5:55 pm to LSU_Richoux
quote:
2010 Cole Alrich #10 overall pick
That was a move made by the previous Shinn/Bower regime, and it actually was a good move as it freed up cap space and drafted Pondexter who has done way more than Aldrich ever did.
quote:
2011 No 1st round pick traded #19 overall pick away
This was traded for Jerryd Bayless who became Jarrett Jack who became the cap space we used to get Robin Lopez. Trading #19 for Lopez doesn't seem that unreasonable. The 2 non hindsight moves where things fall apart for Demps aren't the draft pick trades, it's resigning Gordon rather than doing a S&T, and giving up so much depth to make room for Tyreke.
quote:
I blame our GM Demps if we have to suffer through 3 years in a row of Siemsma level talent.
And who would you blame if we had to suffer through 3 years and counting of Trey Burke as our PG with no Tyreke or Holiday? Especially aided by hindsight there are many moves you'd take back or change, but you can't assume that keeping those picks is any less of a gamble than targeting young veterans, especially with what little track record we have of Demps drafting.
Also, Jrue Holiday played in the vast majority of his games before coming to NOLA. There was no reason to think of him as injury prone, and if he was healthy we'd probably be up on GSW in this series and nobody would be talking about mistakes made in team building, they'd be talking about how awesome the team was.
This post was edited on 4/24/15 at 5:56 pm
Posted on 4/24/15 at 6:21 pm to eyeran
quote:
Hawks
The Hawks have been building a solid team for the past few years. People think Bud came in and turned the thing around, but the Hawks have been to the playoffs seven years in a row. Horford and Teague are homegrown players who have been on all of those playoff teams. Not only are they good players, they know what it takes to play in the postseason.
They added a guy in Korver, a "complimentary" piece who just so happens to be the best 3P shooter in the league and has played in the playoffs 9 different seasons.
Paul Milsaps - unselfish, team player, perfect compliment to the nucleus of Atlanta. Been to the playoff 7 times.
Carroll is the 3 and D guy, Schroeder the young spark plug, Thabo was the defensive stopper with playoff experience. Mack, Scott, Antic etc all great bench players.
It takes time to get there. The current makeup of the Pels has not been together long and has no playoff experience, basically. If you fire Monty, do you risk pissing off your best player and blowing up what we have built? Or do you get lucky and get a coach like Bud who can make a seamless transition to a new team and take them to the next level?
Posted on 4/24/15 at 6:48 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
That was a move made by the previous Shinn/Bower regime, and it actually was a good move as it freed up cap space and drafted Pondexter who has done way more than Aldrich ever did.
I won't argue the Aldrich Pondexter point that is quite obvious but if you truly coveted a PG analyzing your team needs Eric Bledsoe was available and selected at #18 that year. I know hindsight is 20/20 but Bledsoe was the #2 rated PG coming out that draft behind John Wall that year.
quote:
The 2 non hindsight moves where things fall apart for Demps aren't the draft pick trades, it's resigning Gordon rather than doing a S&T, and giving up so much depth to make room for Tyreke.
Agree...Gordon had started to show a history of being injury prone
quote:
And who would you blame if we had to suffer through 3 years and counting of Trey Burke as our PG with no Tyreke or Holiday?
Demps again draft a young PG if you thought that was a real area of need. See Bledsoe example from 2011 draft and you wouldn't have had to suffer thru 3 years of Trey Burke...again hindsight is 20/20
I believe we have similar opinions on the direction and make up of this team. We may also disagree on certain moves and evaluations of certain players but that makes neither one of us right nor wrong. It is just our opinions. I enjoy reading your post as you appear to be well verse on the game of basketball and objective. Here's to the continued development and hopefully long term success of the Pelicans
Just curious to hear what your opinion on Monty is. Do you think he is the long term solution and can bring the Pelicans to the next level?
Posted on 4/24/15 at 6:52 pm to LSU_Richoux
I wouldn't be completely shocked if Monty was able to ride AD plus talent to a title, but in general I think he's an average coach who doesn't add much value. He get's more blame than he deserves, but he also hasn't shown that he has what it takes to be the difference in a series. I'm all for replacing him now, but don't think it will kill the team if we don't.
Posted on 4/24/15 at 6:53 pm to LSU_Richoux
I'd bring in one of the trio of know upstart assistants either Dufrene, Jones or Folse.
Posted on 4/24/15 at 7:08 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:
I'd bring in one of the trio of know upstart assistants either Dufrene, Jones or Folse.
Yes plz
Posted on 4/24/15 at 7:46 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
It takes time to get there. The current makeup of the Pels has not been together long and has no playoff experience, basically. If you fire Monty, do you risk pissing off your best player and blowing up what we have built? Or do you get lucky and get a coach like Bud who can make a seamless transition to a new team and take them to the next level?
I would agree. I'm not sold on Monty/Demps or the Hawks comparison. But I'm fine with them coming back for another year. Despite the odds and the injuries, they got into the playoffs. They've played much better than expected this series. How much of that is because of Davis? Time will tell. But these guys love playing for Monty, they are still learning, and they have fought tooth and nail with one of the best regular season teams of all time. Those things shouldn't be so easily dismissed despite the emotions of the loss.
For more perspective, Lowe Post with Amin Elhassan. Pels/Warriosn game 3 talk for the first 15-20 minutes.
LINK
Posted on 4/24/15 at 8:51 pm to corndeaux
I don't think the players loving Monty should be a reason to keep him around, BUT, it does mean you HAVE to hit on the next hire. A guy that already comes in with a certain amount of respect.
Imo, its way too risky to bring in a hot assistant at this point. We already have the main piece, a superstar, I don't want to risk pairing him with a guy who might be good.
Thats where Thibs comes to mind. I've never been a huge fan of hiring him, but, we know for a fact he can coach. We know the defense would improve. And he already has a relationship with Davis from Team USA. Thibs isn't the type to pump up opponents, but he hasn't held back how much he loves ADs game over the past few years. I remember him staying back in the lockerroom to check on Davis after he took that nasty fall vs the Bulls earlier this season.
So he's a guy with a resume that would already command respect from the team, and most importantly, already has a mutual respect/admiration with Davis.
Imo, its way too risky to bring in a hot assistant at this point. We already have the main piece, a superstar, I don't want to risk pairing him with a guy who might be good.
Thats where Thibs comes to mind. I've never been a huge fan of hiring him, but, we know for a fact he can coach. We know the defense would improve. And he already has a relationship with Davis from Team USA. Thibs isn't the type to pump up opponents, but he hasn't held back how much he loves ADs game over the past few years. I remember him staying back in the lockerroom to check on Davis after he took that nasty fall vs the Bulls earlier this season.
So he's a guy with a resume that would already command respect from the team, and most importantly, already has a mutual respect/admiration with Davis.
Posted on 4/24/15 at 9:12 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:
I'd bring in one of the trio of know upstart assistants either Dufrene, Jones or Folse
I see what you did there BOOM hahaha
Folse got caught watching the paint dry...
Posted on 4/25/15 at 12:01 am to eyeran
Good read
Posted on 4/25/15 at 7:28 am to eyeran
Spot on. I would hope that Woj tweet about playoffs or bust is inaccurate. You either want to keep Monty around or you don't. One game out of 82 shouldn't make that decision for you. And if they are looking for a new coach, the hire MUST be a home run. Davis's clock is ticking. They can't waste years with the wrong guy.
This Lowe article on Scott Brooks read like a future post mortem on Monty, tbh.
My main hang up with Thibs is his minutes policy. Davis still needs some protection and we're seeing more and more team realize the value of saving minutes for the playoffs. I wouldn't be upset with an assistant (this Arnovitz piece on Bud was fascinating) but it needs to be a guy the front office is absolutely in love with and who is willing and able to win over Davis. Like you say, that's an awfully big gamble on an unknown.
This Lowe article on Scott Brooks read like a future post mortem on Monty, tbh.
quote:
Brooks evolved after those 2012 Finals, but he was never a coach who could tilt the odds in Oklahoma City’s favor during a playoff series. The same issues always cropped up: He overplayed Perkins, underplayed lineups featuring Durant at power forward, favored aging veterans who couldn’t play anymore, failed to stagger the minutes of his stars, bizarrely had his big men hedge out 35 feet from the basket on nonthreatening pick-and-rolls, and waited a game or a quarter too long to yank lineups that just weren’t working. Brooks’s hook was faster in 2014 than it had been in 2012, but it wasn’t fast enough.
quote:
The Thunder brain trust had to have known this before today, which is what makes the timing so curious — in some ways. They probably knew it after the playoffs in 2013 and 2014, when the Thunder offense looked increasingly antiquated — a star system that couldn’t adapt. Nothing that happened this season should have impacted the franchise’s view of Brooks.
quote:
The Thunder should look carefully at what happened in Golden State this season. The Warriors under Mark Jackson had a decent offense — not as good as Oklahoma City’s, but solid enough when Stephen Curry was on the floor. With more seasoning and good health, the Jackson Warriors could have been a top-10 or even top-five offense. The talent is that strong.
But Kerr, Gentry, and Ron Adams saw the chance to craft something more powerful. In the end, the current Warriors offense might produce only a couple more points per 100 possessions than Jackson’s offense could have in time. That doesn’t sound like much, but that small difference in quality could mean everything in the last two or three rounds of the playoffs. Perhaps Gentry could do something similar for the Thunder. The stats might not change much, but if the system does, those stats could be more sustainable in the games that mean the most.
quote:
Brooks will land a head job somewhere, this summer or next. He’s well liked, and he’s damned good at some parts of his job. The players loved him, they played hard for him, and he kept their attention for seven seasons — about three Scott Skiles head-coaching stints. Players got better, and expanded their games, under Brooks and his staff.
My main hang up with Thibs is his minutes policy. Davis still needs some protection and we're seeing more and more team realize the value of saving minutes for the playoffs. I wouldn't be upset with an assistant (this Arnovitz piece on Bud was fascinating) but it needs to be a guy the front office is absolutely in love with and who is willing and able to win over Davis. Like you say, that's an awfully big gamble on an unknown.
Posted on 4/25/15 at 8:10 am to corndeaux
quote:
In the end it was the ultimate playoff lesson, delivered in the cruelest way possible.
Love this
Posted on 4/25/15 at 8:15 am to corndeaux
I'm with eyeran and corndeaux. If and when we make a coaching move, it has to be THE hire, imo. No stop gap hires nor any crazy gambles. If the right candidate isn't available, stand pat for now. That's the probability for this off season, but things can change quickly.
Posted on 4/25/15 at 10:09 am to corndeaux
quote:
I would hope that Woj tweet about playoffs or bust is inaccurate.
I think 42 put the right spin on it, something along those lines probably was said to start the season, but that doesn't mean it was a rigid criteria 6 months later. Saying "It's in your best interest to make the playoffs" in October says the same thing but is not necessarily a rigid mandate.
quote:
You either want to keep Monty around or you don't.
I keep coming back to the attempt to bring in Mike Malone as a coaching consultant. Is there any way that could be a Monty based request? I just don't see the benefit to Monty unless he genuinely valued Malone's input. If Loomis is looking for the Sean Payton Boy Genius Assistant model, Malone fits. I also haven't heard Malone tied to any openings yets so my fingers are crossed that he's an assistant for the Pels next season.
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