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Posted on 12/22/14 at 10:48 am to Peazey
quote:
1. Humans 2. Elves 3. Dwarves 4. Goblins 5. Wolves It was less clear if existent at all in the movie that the wolves or wargs are a separate entity entirely from the goblins.
This disagrees - puts the Wargs and Goblins (and Bats) together, and considers the Eagles the 5th Army in the field
^^^^^^^^^
This is an accurate description of the battle (start to finish, including order of battle). Too bad PJ could not stick with this, as it would have been just as (if not more) exciting than what was on the screen, and would have made more sense (since the battle was written by a former British military officer that had fought in WWI and knew military tactics).
Also, the goblins (orcs) in the book were from the Misty Mountains (same ones the dwarves had escaped from earlier [Unexpected Journey]) and from the Grey Mountains (which were directly north of Mirkwood, and quite far away from Angmar LINK, although, I would note that the references to Gundabad are accurate).
PJ had the orc forces coming from Dol Guldur and Angmar to create a link to the later events in LOTR (as well as to help his "gap filling").
This post was edited on 12/22/14 at 10:53 am
Posted on 12/22/14 at 11:09 am to Supravol22
quote:
Dwarves
Elves
Humans (Lake Town)
Orcs (Dol Guldur)
Orcs (Angmar)
I can see why you think this, but the Orcs are all one army.
The fifth army is the Eagles.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 11:12 am to Peazey
quote:
1. Humans
2. Elves
3. Dwarves
4. Goblins
5. Wolves
It was less clear if existent at all in the movie that the wolves or wargs are a separate entity entirely from the goblins.
The issue is trying to fuse Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit. I do not believe he ever used the word orc or warg in the Hobbit but instead used goblin and wolf, though it is unclear if wolf and warg are meant to be the same.
But the wargs are simply the mounts for the orcs. So as you would not count horses as a separate army from elves or man, so too would you not count wargs as a separate army.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 11:41 am to LeonPhelps
Can someone please assure me that we will see much more of Beorn in the extended version? One of my favorite parts of the book and they cut him to just a stupid air assault? I think I lost sleep over that!
This movie was only 2.5hrs so why did they cut sooo much crap out? Even the trailers had some great looking battle sequences that didn't make the final cut!
This movie was only 2.5hrs so why did they cut sooo much crap out? Even the trailers had some great looking battle sequences that didn't make the final cut!
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:15 pm to JohnnyBgood
Oh, and also, Evangeline Lilly sure does make my penis wiggle. I dug her in the movie..she was kicking some arse.
Also, Legolas running out of arrows was pretty awesome. I had just asked my buddy if he had some sort of magical quiver that never ran out (which would've made enough sense for me), and then the next scene showed him being empty. I was like "Welp, nevermind."
Also, Legolas running out of arrows was pretty awesome. I had just asked my buddy if he had some sort of magical quiver that never ran out (which would've made enough sense for me), and then the next scene showed him being empty. I was like "Welp, nevermind."
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:32 pm to JohnnyBgood
Beorn and the Eagles were what I was most looking forward to in this movie. It was a pretty big letdown. I guess I imagined it being a lot bloodier and dark too when I read the book as a kid, but I guess that was never going to happen anyway.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:37 pm to udtiger
quote:
This disagrees - puts the Wargs and Goblins (and Bats) together, and considers the Eagles the 5th Army in the field
"was called the Battle of Five Armies ... Upon one side were the Goblins and the Wild Wolves, and upon the other were Elves and Men and Dwarves."
I think this is a direct quote from the book. It would lead me to believe that the Eagles weren't a fifth army and were just the deus ex machina as normal.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:40 pm to LeonPhelps
quote:
I do not believe he ever used the word orc or warg in the Hobbit but instead used goblin and wolf, though it is unclear if wolf and warg are meant to be the same.
I don't think he used to word orc in The Hobbit. I'm pretty sure that he used the word warg in this book. I think warg is just a really smart personified wolf, as the wolves had a lot more personality in the books.
quote:
But the wargs are simply the mounts for the orcs. So as you would not count horses as a separate army from elves or man, so too would you not count wargs as a separate army.
That's how it is in the movie, so I would go with that for it.
This post was edited on 12/22/14 at 1:07 pm
Posted on 12/22/14 at 12:44 pm to Peazey
quote:
It would lead me to believe that the Eagles weren't a fifth army and were just the deus ex machina as normal.
This is accurate. The "Wild Wolves" are referred to as Wargs, however, throughout the novel. The Wargs were essentially like the Direwolves of "Game of Thrones" except that they could talk. They were intelligent, evil, and led massive packs of regular wolves. In this case, the goblins rode atop the wargs with lots of regular wolves in tow along with the bats and cave trolls outfitted for the seige.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 2:30 pm to Peazey
It's been awhile since I read the book, but I'm pretty sure the Eagles were the fifth army.
Orcs, Wargs and Wolves - 1
Elves of Mirkwood - 2
Dwarves from Ironhills and Misty Mts. - 3
Men of the Lake - 4
Eagles - 5
Orcs, Wargs and Wolves - 1
Elves of Mirkwood - 2
Dwarves from Ironhills and Misty Mts. - 3
Men of the Lake - 4
Eagles - 5
Posted on 12/22/14 at 5:18 pm to CocomoLSU
Evangeline Lilly is gorgeous. I want to do nasty things with her
Posted on 12/22/14 at 6:07 pm to biglego
If she wears the ears
Posted on 12/22/14 at 6:53 pm to udtiger
I would do nasty things to her ears
Posted on 12/23/14 at 8:04 am to Peazey
you are correct Peavey
this is from my kindle version
also the movie is based off the book and Tolkien called it the battle of five armies that is what PJ used. So the issue with not knowing the fifth army in the movie is PJ's fault. It should have been the wolves. The Eagles are not an army.
this is from my kindle version
quote:
Upon one side were the Goblins and the Wild Wolves, and upon the other were Elves and Men and Dwarves.
also the movie is based off the book and Tolkien called it the battle of five armies that is what PJ used. So the issue with not knowing the fifth army in the movie is PJ's fault. It should have been the wolves. The Eagles are not an army.
This post was edited on 12/23/14 at 8:08 am
Posted on 12/23/14 at 8:13 am to biglego
quote:
I would do nasty things on her ears
FIFY
Posted on 12/23/14 at 8:33 am to athenslife101
Didn't read the entire thread. I enjoyed the movie but didn't understand all of the comedic relief. It seems like there were attempts at a laugh every 5 minutes.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 8:39 am to skullhawk
quote:
Didn't read the entire thread. I enjoyed the movie but didn't understand all of the comedic relief. It seems like there were attempts at a laugh every 5 minutes.
Comedic relief was hit and miss the entire movie.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 1:09 pm to catholictigerfan
LOTR fan and just saw the movie and I was pleased. Certainly not perfect and the battle could have been a bit more epic but overall solid.
If you are a fan it was somewhat sad that that's it.
If you are a fan it was somewhat sad that that's it.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 12:38 am to LeonPhelps
quote:
My favorite part is when Thorin finally finds himself again, walks out of the deep of Erebor toward his kin with the light at his back, and asks his men to follow him one last time. Then, just as the last of Dain's men are set up for their last stand at the gates of Erebor, Bombur plays that awesome sound on that crazy horn, the statue crashes through the gates, and Thorin streams out with his crew. He has charges past Dain's men into the orcs. From afar, Bilbo sees it with Gandalf and says, "The Dwarves are rallying!" Gandalf responds in only the way Ian McKellan can, "They rally to their king." I basically had a boner the rest of the movie from that point.
Isn't this exactly how the Two Towers ended?
Eta: in the book it is all goblins, the only use of the word Orc was to refer to a larger breed of goblin. I don't think they were distinguished until later works. And yes, wargs were the 5th army, they were intelligent with their own language and meeting places, etc. Not simple beasts of burden as they are in the films.
This post was edited on 12/24/14 at 12:44 am
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