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re: Star Wars - A New Hope: How Flawed is it?
Posted on 4/28/14 at 1:49 pm to ZacAttack
Posted on 4/28/14 at 1:49 pm to ZacAttack
Which one is A New Hope? I still refer to Star Wars as 1, The Empire Strikes Back as 2, and the Return of the Jedi as 3. Two of the other three were marginal and one of them sucked so I just call those 4-6. Lucas cannot just jump in and change sequences on me when I have been watching those movies since the late 70s.
2
Posted on 4/28/14 at 1:50 pm to navy
quote:
One question that has never been answered ... than I am aware of: How do you get "Ben" from "Obi Wan" ?
I always assumed he assumed a name to avoid the cleansing of the Jedi that happens after Ep3 and before Ep4.
Though how a name-change of only your first name is going to fool a Sith Lord? Not sure.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 1:50 pm to navy
quote:Obi Wan is Swahili for Ben.
One question that has never been answered ... than I am aware of: How do you get "Ben" from "Obi Wan" ?
Posted on 4/28/14 at 1:50 pm to DanTiger
quote:
Which one is A New Hope? I still refer to Star Wars as 1, The Empire Strikes Back as 2, and the Return of the Jedi as 3. Two of the other three were marginal and one of them sucked so I just call those 4-6. Lucas cannot just jump in and change sequences on me when I have been watching those movies since the late 70s.
A New Hope has been Ep4 since at the latest when Empire came out.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 1:53 pm to CrippleCreek
quote:
A New Hope has been Ep4 since at the latest when Empire came out.
Is a New Hope the original Star Wars?
Posted on 4/28/14 at 1:54 pm to DanTiger
quote:
Is a New Hope the original Star Wars?
Yes
Posted on 4/28/14 at 1:54 pm to DanTiger
quote:
Is a New Hope the original Star Wars?
yes
Posted on 4/28/14 at 1:58 pm to CrippleCreek
quote:
Yes
If that is true how is this accurate?
quote:
A New Hope has been Ep4 since at the latest when Empire came out.
The Empire Stikes Back came out immediately after Star Wars and was even billed as a sequal and the second film in the series in advertisements. I realize that has changed now that the newer 3 movies have been released but I don't see how that could be true in the early 80s.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 2:01 pm to DanTiger
When ESB came out, the opening crawl had it as Episode 5. Star Wars was retconned immediately to the name Star Wars: A New Hope Episode IV, and ROTJ was Episode VI in the original theatrical release.
I mean...come on dude.
I mean...come on dude.
This post was edited on 4/28/14 at 2:03 pm
Posted on 4/28/14 at 2:01 pm to DanTiger
The film was originally released as Star Wars, without "Episode IV" or the subtitle A New Hope. The 1980 sequel, The Empire Strikes Back, was numbered "Episode V" in the opening crawl. When the original film was re-released on April 10, 1981, Episode IV: A New Hope was added above the original opening crawl.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 2:03 pm to DanTiger
quote:
If that is true how is this accurate?
quote:
When the film was originally released in 1977, it was simply referred to as Star Wars, though supposedly, George Lucas had intended to put Episode IV: A New Hope in the opening crawl, but 20th Century Fox didn't want Lucas to do so because they thought it would confuse audiences, since there were never any other episodes released before it. After the commercial success of the original Star Wars, Lucas was able to continue with the multi-film epic he originally envisioned. The Empire Strikes Back was released in 1980 and bore the full title of Star Wars, Episode V, The Empire Strikes Back in the title crawl, although it was referred to only as The Empire Strikes Back as the title of its commercial release. It was the "Episode V" appearing in the opening crawl which originally confused those members of the audience who had not been made aware of what Lucas was explaining, that the original "Star Wars" was now intended to be the 4th part of a nine-part series. The original "Star Wars" was re-released in 1981 with a new title: "Star Wars, Episode IV, A New Hope" in the title crawl. This title appeared on all subsequent re-releases and versions from then on (though the original version was released on DVD in 2006, which shows the title crawl in its original form). All subsequent Star Wars films have followed this new naming structure, although "Star Wars" often refers specifically to the 1977 film.
IMDB FAQ
Posted on 4/28/14 at 2:10 pm to Freauxzen
if this is aimed at me, i said it was flawed as in it has flaws yet is still seen as great(which i clarified in the other thread).
Posted on 4/28/14 at 2:11 pm to LoveThatMoney
quote:
it has not aged nearly as well as other relatively contemporaneous sci-fi films (e.g. Blade Runner).
See I would flip that. Blade Runner looks dated. Star Wars sits with The Thing as one of those effects heavy films that have aged well.
quote:
A New Hope is a relatively slow, meandering film with bad acting from much of the core cast.
Slow....maybe. Acting...certainly sub par on a few accounts.
quote:
It's director is timid behind the camera, as I recall, with nothing to really make you think much was going on with the visual telling of the story other than to set up a scene so the actors can deliver lines. Instead, the director largely relies on visual effects to blow away the audience.
On the flip side, had Lucas had more directorial bravado, would that have cheapened the feel of the film? We're talking ground-breaking special effects that shined often because the film was absent directorial flare. In a film with a half-western/half-fantasy bend that takes place in space, I think the directing did something important: it didn't get in the way.
quote:
All that said, it is not a flawed film. It works. And it does what so many films fail to do: set up a new universe that no one had any background in and weave elements of mythology, religion, action, adventure, comedy, romance, and all the other wonderful things it has in it. Despite its flaws, it is a marvel in filmmaking.
Exactly.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 2:11 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
When ESB came out, the opening crawl had it as Episode 5. Star Wars was retconned immediately to the name Star Wars: A New Hope Episode IV, and ROTJ was Episode VI in the original theatrical release.
I mean...come on dude.
I'll be damned. I don't ever remember that ever being mentioned when either movie was released. I do, now that you mention it, remember that on the opening crawl but I think most viewers thought it was meant to be some sort of interstellar mumbojumbo that was not meant to be taken literally. I do remember that the commercials advertised it as the follow up and second film, of course that was accurate. You must also remember that we did not have the internet and news was not constantly churning on television so, I imagine, unless you read the trade papers it was unlikely you thought anything about the crawl. Sequals were also a rarity in thsoe days so I don't believe anyone would have ever believed there would be 6 films.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 2:13 pm to DanTiger
quote:
I'll be damned. I don't ever remember that ever being mentioned when either movie was released. I do, now that you mention it, remember that on the opening crawl but I think most viewers thought it was meant to be some sort of interstellar mumbojumbo that was not meant to be taken literally. I do remember that the commercials advertised it as the follow up and second film, of course that was accurate. You must also remember that we did not have the internet and news was not constantly churning on television so, I imagine, unless you read the trade papers it was unlikely you thought anything about the crawl. Sequals were also a rarity in thsoe days so I don't believe anyone would have ever believed there would be 6 films.
Yes but this is extremely common knowledge. You act like you haven't seen the films or watched the prequels or heard of anything star wars in 33 years.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 2:14 pm to BlacknGold
quote:
if this is aimed at me, i said it was flawed as in it has flaws yet is still seen as great(which i clarified in the other thread).
It was a starting point, this thread isn't though. It was a good question to ask. You know, what does a flaw do to a film. Does it deaden all impact. What kind of "flaws," are real "flaws?" How is "greatness" determined.
Though, your comparison was with Man of Steel, which is kind of crazy. To say that Man of Steel is a great film that has flaws and that Star Wars is a great film that has flaws are two very very different things. But it provides context for a different type of discussion.
This post was edited on 4/28/14 at 2:15 pm
Posted on 4/28/14 at 2:18 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
See I would flip that. Blade Runner looks dated. Star Wars sits with The Thing as one of those effects heavy films that have aged well.
I don't want to hi-jack or anything, but the more I think about it, I think its the score that dates Blade Runner more than the effects.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 2:18 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Yes but this is extremely common knowledge. You act like you haven't seen the films or watched the prequels or heard of anything star wars in 33 years.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 2:23 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Does it deaden all impact. What kind of "flaws," are real "flaws?" How is "greatness" determined.
i dont think it deadens ALL impact, but i think it does have a significant impact. New Hope is my least favorite out of the trilogy. It's boring and a bit "wtf" thrown around. Obi Wan's demise always felt like a very anti-climatic moment. HUGE tension and build up to a 5 second fight.
then theres the famous "hidden self destruct" button for the death star. huge cop out to let the hero instantly win without really working for it.
luke's aunt and uncle are murdered and he basically never deals with it or cares after that initial shock. more of an "aw shucks" reaction.
those are the biggest flaws in my eyes.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 2:41 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Yes but this is extremely common knowledge. You act like you haven't seen the films or watched the prequels or heard of anything star wars in 33 years.
I honestly don't know the new names he has given to the the first three movies produced or the names of the last 3. I do know that he has assigned new names to the first three. I am not a Comic Con kind of guy and was never that involved in the Star Wars lifestyle but I did love the first 3 films when they were released and watched them multiple times. I believe Star Wars was the first movie I ever watched in a theater more thn one time.
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