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re: Captain America: Civil War RT Watch | 92% (213-19) 7.7 avg
Posted on 4/13/16 at 6:36 pm to BilJ
Posted on 4/13/16 at 6:36 pm to BilJ
Could have been the studio but Ultron himself was lame as frick. I wanted to see them actually fight the villain, not bash robots.
It was fine in the first avengers, watching them all bash a shitload of aliens, but it's boring and safe for them to do it again in the 2nd one. And I have a feeling that was on Whedon
It was fine in the first avengers, watching them all bash a shitload of aliens, but it's boring and safe for them to do it again in the 2nd one. And I have a feeling that was on Whedon
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Posted on 4/13/16 at 6:40 pm to BilJ
Studio.
Early interviews with Whedon made it sound like this was supposed to be the darkest Marvel movie to date. He even went as far as to say death was going to be a central theme.
The studio wanted Hawkeye to have more screen time and some of his scenes were clearly shoehorned in. If Ultron killed millions ala Superman, people would have seen him as a success. But the studio clearly backed off after all the backlash from Man of Steel. That movie was so bad it affected other super hero movies.
Early interviews with Whedon made it sound like this was supposed to be the darkest Marvel movie to date. He even went as far as to say death was going to be a central theme.
The studio wanted Hawkeye to have more screen time and some of his scenes were clearly shoehorned in. If Ultron killed millions ala Superman, people would have seen him as a success. But the studio clearly backed off after all the backlash from Man of Steel. That movie was so bad it affected other super hero movies.
Posted on 4/13/16 at 6:43 pm to ThoseGuys
quote:
But the studio clearly backed off after all the backlash from Man of Steel. That movie was so bad it affected other super hero movies.
Wow. Seriously? You're going to blame Man of Steel for Ultron's suckage?
Posted on 4/13/16 at 6:44 pm to MrTide33
quote:
but Marvel is just now hitting their stride.
Only took 8 years and a dozen movies to hit it
Posted on 4/13/16 at 6:46 pm to Fewer Kilometers
If people don't throw a fit on the destruction in Man of Steel does Marvel go out of their way to try and limit the damage in AoU? The plot of Civil War includes how much destruction the Avengers are involved in. Wouldn't it have made more sense for AoU to have major fallout? All signs point to it being a reaction.
I can't blame Man of Steel for the terrible Widow / Hulk love story or some of the stuff with Hawkeye, but I can for Ultron lacking.
I can't blame Man of Steel for the terrible Widow / Hulk love story or some of the stuff with Hawkeye, but I can for Ultron lacking.
Posted on 4/13/16 at 6:48 pm to MrTide33
I hope DC and Warner Brothers are paying attention to the reaction Civil War and the Russo brothers gets.
When you have directors and writers that understand the characters and has a good story to tell on top of the obligatory action porn, you have a movie that will make a shite ton of money and blow past a billion dollars and is still well received by the critics and fanbase of the characters.
BvS is a shitty to average story with the obligatory action porn and it's going to make well less than a billion dollars and may not even get past 900 million. The plot and character development matters.
The writers and directors you pick matter. DC chose poorly with Snyder and Goyer. They need to get rid of those sad one trick hacks that see character development as nothing more than an obstacle.
When you have directors and writers that understand the characters and has a good story to tell on top of the obligatory action porn, you have a movie that will make a shite ton of money and blow past a billion dollars and is still well received by the critics and fanbase of the characters.
BvS is a shitty to average story with the obligatory action porn and it's going to make well less than a billion dollars and may not even get past 900 million. The plot and character development matters.
The writers and directors you pick matter. DC chose poorly with Snyder and Goyer. They need to get rid of those sad one trick hacks that see character development as nothing more than an obstacle.
This post was edited on 4/13/16 at 6:52 pm
Posted on 4/13/16 at 6:54 pm to BilJ
quote:
still haven't decided if the AOU failure was on whedon or the studio
Both. The studio had them trim the run time down and you can still see that Whedon loves to force wit and quippy dialogue everywhere (And goshdarnedit watch your language/OOO you kiss your mother with that mouth?
). I enjoy Marvel movies, but they replace a lot of substance with style in the form of humor. I loved Guardians the first two times I watched it, but now, it's just okay. Winter Soldier is the best movie they've put out because it's the only one that has some serious substance to it. It has character development and a deep plot. Really, Cap is the only character who has had any true development in the MCU. Stark is all over the place, Thor is Thor, Bruce is Bruce (he was essentially just a plot device in AoU), and Black Widow and Hawkeye are still out of place and honestly haven't had any development at all. Yeah it's great that we saw that Hawkeye had a family. So?
I'm still pissed that they wasted Spader for Ultron. Granted that they didn't waste him nearly as much as Shane Black did with Ben Kingsley, but still. Then you introduce Quicksilver just to kill him off? Why? To answer the criticism that there are no consequences to your movies? Lame.
Oh well, I know what I'm getting into with Disney movies, so I'll laugh at their quips and enjoy their action pieces and not try to make it more than it really is.
Posted on 4/13/16 at 6:59 pm to The Last Son
quote:
Only took 8 years and a dozen movies to hit it
To be fair, it really took off with Avengers, Winter Soldier, and GotG. I just think it will ramp up even more in phase 3.
Posted on 4/13/16 at 6:59 pm to ThoseGuys
Marvel has never given a shite about what DC does. They don't need to. They hired a horror director to direct one of their movies for christ's sake. They set the standard. The Man of Steel reaction was more about people thinking it was Superman's fault anyway. There's no way in hell they even considered changing their movie because of a reaction to a DC movie. They don't react. They cause the competition to react.
ETA: I think AoU was not up to par because it was a transition movie. Plus, anytime you have a director and a studio disagreeing, it's usually a recipe for disaster.
ETA: I think AoU was not up to par because it was a transition movie. Plus, anytime you have a director and a studio disagreeing, it's usually a recipe for disaster.
This post was edited on 4/13/16 at 7:05 pm
Posted on 4/13/16 at 7:00 pm to The Last Son
Yeah I'm sure the studio had a hand in it. But part of it was on Whedon wanting to do the same thing in AoU that he did in the first one and it just didn't work.
Hulk/BW love shite was bad.
I like what they tried to do with Hawkeye but there's a reason why he's a secondary character. He's just not interesting. And most of the humor was flat. It wasn't a bad movie, it was certainly better than IM3, but it was just meh. Not good, not bad.
Hulk/BW love shite was bad.
I like what they tried to do with Hawkeye but there's a reason why he's a secondary character. He's just not interesting. And most of the humor was flat. It wasn't a bad movie, it was certainly better than IM3, but it was just meh. Not good, not bad.
Posted on 4/13/16 at 7:00 pm to Sentrius
Marvel just had patience and took time to build their characters, people have a connection to them.
BvS spoilers below
WB wanted to play catch up and everything in BvS just felt unearned and rushed. Why do I care about Superman's death? You barely established him as a hero. Hell, had you just had an oz of patience and made Dawn of Justice 2 movies, you would have been better served. Instead you marketed it around an entire fightthat was barely a fraction of the film.
BvS spoilers below
WB wanted to play catch up and everything in BvS just felt unearned and rushed. Why do I care about Superman's death? You barely established him as a hero. Hell, had you just had an oz of patience and made Dawn of Justice 2 movies, you would have been better served. Instead you marketed it around an entire fightthat was barely a fraction of the film.
Posted on 4/13/16 at 7:07 pm to MrTide33
quote:
To be fair, it really took off with Avengers, Winter Soldier, and GotG
This is the correct answer. Before The Avengers, Marvel had made some good movies, but they weren't great. But The Avengers is the standard that all the Marvel movies try to catch. And then Winter Soldier topped it and so did Guardians.
But to be fair, most of the Marvel movies aren't going to be great like those. They just need them to be okay and good, just not bad. But it is about time they come out with a great one again. They really need Civil War to be on par with Winter Soldier and the like.
Posted on 4/13/16 at 7:13 pm to ThoseGuys
quote:
Early interviews with Whedon made it sound like this was supposed to be the darkest Marvel movie to date.
Well to be fair, it was. Granted that's not saying much. Disney movies are never going to be too dark or gritty.
Posted on 4/13/16 at 7:13 pm to ThoseGuys
But Ultron was a villain, did they not see the difference there?
I think my biggest gripe was the trailer depicted something far different then what we were given
I think my biggest gripe was the trailer depicted something far different then what we were given
Posted on 4/13/16 at 7:14 pm to WicKed WayZ
I must be in the minority
as a non-comic reader with no pre-notion about story, the only Marvel movie I've been disappointed in is IM3
I thought everything else fell on the scale from good to great
as a non-comic reader with no pre-notion about story, the only Marvel movie I've been disappointed in is IM3
I thought everything else fell on the scale from good to great
Posted on 4/13/16 at 7:19 pm to Uncle Stu
No you're not.
I think the consensus is that IM2 is probably the worst Marvel flick. It was not good. IM3 wasn't bad, just not as good as it could have been. The same with AoU. But even then, they aren't bad and still enjoyable.
The only Marvel movie I think was bad was Iron Man 2. The rest are meh/good-great.
I think the consensus is that IM2 is probably the worst Marvel flick. It was not good. IM3 wasn't bad, just not as good as it could have been. The same with AoU. But even then, they aren't bad and still enjoyable.
The only Marvel movie I think was bad was Iron Man 2. The rest are meh/good-great.
This post was edited on 4/13/16 at 7:20 pm
Posted on 4/13/16 at 7:20 pm to Uncle Stu
Hal Rudnik- Screen Junkies (Not an RT review)
quote:
Capt America: Civil War is like True Detective season 1. Batman v Superman is like True Detective season 2.
Posted on 4/13/16 at 7:20 pm to MrTide33
Frick yes.
The early reviews are making my pants move.
The early reviews are making my pants move.
Posted on 4/13/16 at 7:21 pm to MrTide33
I'm looking forward to this one. This and X-Men Apocalypse I believe are in good hands and will result in fantastic films. All of the trailers have looked good. "Winter Soldier" was simply outstanding. I see no reason why this film won't be good...you know outside of Iron Man 3 sucking and Avengers: Age of Ultron just being ok.
Posted on 4/13/16 at 7:24 pm to The Last Son
quote:
Also, Snyder's name alone took points off of the movie. There are still some in Hollywood who believe that no matter the movie, the director controls every single aspect of the movie they direct and with these big blockbusters, that couldn't be further from the truth
You live in a different world if you think the vast majority of movie goers give two shits about the director, much less even know his name.
The average movie watcher is an idiot. I would bet mucho dinero that if you polled an audience from batman vs superman, less than 10% would know who the director was.
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