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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 11/1/11 at 1:45 am to dratnar
quote:
I dont even know how to make sense of what you just said. I cant even name a white tailback who tore up D1 off the top of my head, if there is even one. I thought you were a dumbass before, now i know
I just named one dude....
Posted on 11/1/11 at 1:46 am to lsu480
quote:
Ya....them and Toby Gerhart. If he was black he would have been a top 15 pick.
There you go again.
You OPINION stated as fact.
If toby Gerhart was black, then he would still be toby Gerhart. The Big arse RB with poo top end speed and no burst
Black RBs arent viewed as having more upside, they just have better measurables (size to speed ratio, burst, etc) Name me an example of 2 rbs (1 white and 1 black) who have basically identicalmeasureables, stats, and skill sets from college and show me the discrepancy in their draft position. White rbs arent drafted high #1 because there arent any and #2 because the ones who are good in college (gerhart and hester) do not have skill sets that translate to being an NFL RB
This post was edited on 11/1/11 at 2:01 am
Posted on 11/1/11 at 1:47 am to dratnar
Its a fact dude. I know Woodhead wasn't D1 but do you REALLY think if he was black he would have gone undrafted? No fricking way! Its just the way the world and the NFL works.....
Posted on 11/1/11 at 1:56 am to lsu480
The entire NFL is apparently run by the offensive coordinator from Friday Night Lights
Posted on 11/1/11 at 1:56 am to lsu480
quote:
Its a fact dude. I know Woodhead wasn't D1 but do you REALLY think if he was black he would have gone undrafted? No fricking way! Its just the way the world and the NFL works..
I initially misread your port. I thought you were saying white RBs who tear up D1 are drafted higher than a black RB who does just as well.
That being said, I understand where you are coming from with the race card. WHat I am saying is that if cam and luck's situation are reversed, it still wouldnt matter because the combination of offensive scheme, system, and length of time as a D1 starter outweighs any other possible racial factor.
I do not believe that race is a part of it at all. But even if it was, that factor would be dwarfed by the other reasons I just stated. I believe that if the panthers honestly thought cam newton is a better qb than luck, they would take him over luck. If they thought luck was better and drafted him, then it would be because of the reasons I previously stated, not because he was white or black.
I'm done reiterating my point for the 50th time
Posted on 11/1/11 at 2:01 am to dratnar
quote:
I do not believe that race is a part of it at all. But even if it was, that factor would be dwarfed by the other reasons I just stated. I believe that if the panthers honestly thought cam newton is a better qb than luck, they would take him over luck. If they thought luck was better and drafted him, then it would be because of the reasons I previously stated, not because he was white or black.
I'm done reiterating my point for the 50th time
I understand what you are saying. I also don't know if the scouts and GMs are intentionally using race, if they are no one will admit it, but the fact is race is a factor.....even if it is a subconscious one.
Posted on 11/1/11 at 2:08 am to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
Andrew Luck is better than Cam Newton (at Auburn) at every single aspect of the game, except for running outside of the pocket.
Pretty much this.
Luck is awesome to watch play. The best thing I saw him do last Saturday was on the 2 point conversion in the third OT...he didn't even bother to look at where the TE was going to be and at the last second looked and threw the guy open. You just don't see those minor details in college.
Posted on 11/1/11 at 2:18 am to tigerfan88
quote:
I mean he's had 4 different offensive systems in 4 years
lol what?
Posted on 11/1/11 at 2:46 am to SprintFun
quote:
Luck is awesome to watch play
but Cam wants to be the entertainer and icon...
Posted on 11/1/11 at 6:17 am to DelU249
His dad played in the NFL, he has had good coaching, he's very accurate, and is a good leader.
Posted on 11/1/11 at 6:40 am to DelU249
quote:
well then tell me why...someone tell me something about Luck that makes him a better prospect.
A better prospect than Cam was before the draft, or a prospect to be a better NFL player than Cam is now? Because those are two very different things.
Luck doesn't just play in a 'pro style' offense, he plays in a very complex offense which is nearer to the next level than typical. Cam played in an offense which made things very simple for him, and which rarely required him to make multiple reads. Usually on passes it was read then run.
Being able to make multiple reads is obviously crucial to NFL offenses, and Cam hadn't proven he could do it in college (which isn't to say he had proven he couldn't do it), and this made him somewhat of a gamble. The gamble seems to have paid off handsomely.
Posted on 11/1/11 at 8:23 am to dratnar
quote:
If toby Gerhart was black, then he would still be toby Gerhart. The Big arse RB with poo top end speed and no burst
Who played against better defenses (according to their NCAA ranking in rush defense) and put up better numbers than Mark Ingram...
Posted on 11/1/11 at 8:28 am to DelU249
quote:
Why is Andrew Luck a better prospect than Cam Newton was?
what was cam's weakness...
Cam had one season in D1, that's it, he didn't have the body of work to get as much hype as a prospect.
The real problem is the way you are thinking about it. You seem be thinking that saying one is "better" is a fact. Its like arguing how's the hottest chick in the Victoria Secret catelog sometimes, it doesn't really matter.
Posted on 11/1/11 at 8:31 am to dratnar
quote:
I cant even name a white tailback who tore up D1 off the top of my head
Hester and Gehart come to mind, but yeah there aren't many.
Posted on 11/1/11 at 9:20 am to dratnar
quote:
Person A: has a 3.9 GPA at Stanford
Person B: Gets caught cheating 3 times at his university. Steals a laptop and throws it out of his window when fbi comes to his door. Does not speak in complete or coherent sentences.
Who is smarter?
What does that have anything to do with football?
Posted on 11/1/11 at 9:24 am to Geaux2002
quote:
First off, Cam proved very little in college as a passing QB in college. While he put up some nice stats and had a better throwing motion than Tebow and Vince Young coming out, his throwing mechanics were not good and he was not as accurate as his stats make him seem to some (like you). That is the first thing you seem to not understand.
This is where people were majorly wrong. Cam ran a lot in college. A lot of it, by design. People said he "couldn't throw." IMO people weren't watching. I watched him, routinely, throw deep outs, hit balls up the seam, etc.
Was he inconsistent at times? Sure. But the fact is, you could watch him and see how much raw, natural throwing ability he had, and that was basically doing it on his own.
quote:
Secondly, Cam has never been regarded as smart, yet tons of people claim it now because he's been pretty successful so far this season. The kid isn't dumb, but he's nowhere near QB smart like the elites.
Why do you say he's not "QB smart" like the elites? He's having a rookie season comparable to Dan Marino. He came into a shortened workout situation, learned an offense, took over a starting job and has propelled an offense to the top 5 that failed to score more than 2 TDs in a single game last year.
And he's not doing it just running around and playing on instinct. He's flinging the ball around. Seems pretty smart to me.
quote:
but many of his throws have been to wide open players.
I don't think you've watched that much. Plus, in the NFL most players don't get "wide open" they "get thrown" wide open.
Posted on 11/1/11 at 10:08 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
The real problem is the way you are thinking about it. You seem be thinking that saying one is "better" is a fact. Its like arguing how's the hottest chick in the Victoria Secret catelog sometimes, it doesn't really matter.
Exactly how I see it. I think everyone else sees it as Luck>>>>>>>>>>>Newton. They see best QB prospect since John elway (who wasn't even the best QB in his draft) I say the best prospect since last year
Posted on 11/1/11 at 10:21 am to Sophandros
quote:
Who played against better defenses (according to their NCAA ranking in rush defense) and put up better numbers than Mark Ingram...
Exactly. I know Tobys 40 time wasn't the best but it was still better than Ingrams 4.6+!
Posted on 11/1/11 at 10:57 am to Mephistopheles
quote:
A better prospect than Cam was before the draft, or a prospect to be a better NFL player than Cam is now? Because those are two very different things.
This would be a good question. If you could have Andrew Luck or Cam for the next 10 years, who would you want?
Saying you could pick either one for the long term, which one do you want?
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