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re: Northwestern football players win their petition to unionize
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:52 pm to Keys Open Doors
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:52 pm to Keys Open Doors
quote:
College sports revenues are going through the roof.
Most Athletic Departments Not Profitable
Just 23 of 228 athletics departments at NCAA Division I public schools generated enough money on their own to cover their expenses in 2012. Of that group, 16 also received some type of subsidy — and 10 of those 16 athletics departments received more subsidy money in 2012 than they did in 2011.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:52 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
the law just states that employees can unionize. The definition of employee is left up to the court, actually, and a scholarship college athlete meets every prong of the test (primarily the one about the employer control of activity). This isn't a bad law unless you think unions should be outlawed.
College athletes are simply kids who have a great opportunity that many would kill for. Not employees.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:52 pm to moneyg
quote:
Les Miles is making $5M because he runs a multi-million dollar organization that drives enough revenue and benefit to the university to justify that...thus, he is compensated accordingly.
This almost sounds like a PR release from an agent for college football coaches. The coaches work for an organization that doesn't pay players, unlike the NFL. The money that the organization makes has to go somewhere. Since the players aren't payed beyond the cost of their scholarships, the money is thus spent on facilities and coaches' salaries. If T Boone Pickens or Phil Knight could pay players in a truly capitalist system, the money would be going to Marcus Smart, DeAnthony Thomas, etc.
The single largest group that benefits from all this is the coaches, who get treated as if they are in a capitalist system, while none of the people they oversee, except for lowly compliance and administrative employees, are.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:53 pm to Baloo
quote:
That's what a union is. If you disagree with collective bargaining, you are arguing to outlaw unions. At least be honest in what you're saying.
i disagree with forced collective bargaining
many unions (or grouping of employees, if you will) and employers negotiate without the need of government, each and every day.
again, it's not my thing, but if they want to engage in free contacting, then go for it.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:53 pm to TigersforEver
quote:as a current athlete i couldnt agree more
College athletes are simply kids who have a great opportunity that many would kill for. Not employees
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:54 pm to TT9
quote:
So what does this mean exactly?
Good News: EA (or another company) should be able to pay players and begin producing NCAA Football again once this spreads throughout the whole landscape
Bad News: There won't be any college football for them to base the game on
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:55 pm to Baloo
quote:
Scholarship income is defined under the tax code as non-taxable income. Unionizing has literally nothing to do with how income is taxed.
If they get pay or compensation on top of the scholarship.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:55 pm to Moustache
i still want to know how student-athletes who get paid will be allowed to participate in NCAA activities
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:56 pm to SlowFlowPro
Here is a scenario that shows why this is a bad idea.
Football players are unionized, so the 85 scholarship players now get paid.
The 35 non scholarship players are mad. They still have to practice and workout, and be the scout teams for upcoming games. The non scholarship players band together and say "Pay us the same as the starters/scholarship players because we are just as important as the starters and scholarship players! If you don't pay us, we will walk out and you will have to use game day contributors for your scout teams"
Then the walk ons start getting paid. Now the student managers want a piece of the pie. "We wash the players uniforms and clothes, distribute and maintain their equipment, and help run practices among other things. You can not operate without us!"
The student managers are now getting paid, and the student trainers see what they did. "We tape ankles, distribute water and Gatorade, and do other essential tasks for the football program. Pay us or your players will die of dehydration at practice"
So now the student trainers are getting paid. The student video staff who films practices and games now want in. "We film all your practices and games, cut up the video and organize it all. Without us, how can you critique practices and games?"
See where this is going?
Football players are unionized, so the 85 scholarship players now get paid.
The 35 non scholarship players are mad. They still have to practice and workout, and be the scout teams for upcoming games. The non scholarship players band together and say "Pay us the same as the starters/scholarship players because we are just as important as the starters and scholarship players! If you don't pay us, we will walk out and you will have to use game day contributors for your scout teams"
Then the walk ons start getting paid. Now the student managers want a piece of the pie. "We wash the players uniforms and clothes, distribute and maintain their equipment, and help run practices among other things. You can not operate without us!"
The student managers are now getting paid, and the student trainers see what they did. "We tape ankles, distribute water and Gatorade, and do other essential tasks for the football program. Pay us or your players will die of dehydration at practice"
So now the student trainers are getting paid. The student video staff who films practices and games now want in. "We film all your practices and games, cut up the video and organize it all. Without us, how can you critique practices and games?"
See where this is going?
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:56 pm to TigersforEver
Sure, a college athlete has received a great opportunity.
But they signed a contract and agree to perform services in exchange of compensation. As per the terms of the contract, the school can control the athlete's performance and even restrict his ability to earn income elsewhere. How the hell ISN'T that employment? I don't even think this is a particularly close call.
But they signed a contract and agree to perform services in exchange of compensation. As per the terms of the contract, the school can control the athlete's performance and even restrict his ability to earn income elsewhere. How the hell ISN'T that employment? I don't even think this is a particularly close call.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:57 pm to goldennugget
quote:
See where this is going?
you don't even have to get that detailed
1. paying these players would be a violation of NCAA rules
2. paying these players would trigger Title 9
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:57 pm to SlowFlowPro
They won't. All the NCAA has to do is declare unionized players ineligible and this ends.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:57 pm to goldennugget
quote:
Football players are unionized, so the 85 scholarship players now get paid.
No, not true. The rest of your hypothetical fails due to a failed assumption. Unionization does not payment. They are allowed to unionize because they ALREADY receive compensation in the form of the scholarship. It's why walk-ons may not unionize.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:57 pm to hendersonshands
Whatever it takes to bring back the NCAA football game.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:58 pm to tigers102886
Profit and revenue are vastly different things.
For the BCS schools, the money they are getting from tv deals is through the roof. However, in a competitive marketplace, they are trying to gain an edge by spending a ton on coaches, building additional facilities, etc. There are programs paying 3 or 4 head coaches right now, due to their buyouts. There will always be poorly run schools and administrations, just like there will be poorly run corporations.
For the BCS schools, the money they are getting from tv deals is through the roof. However, in a competitive marketplace, they are trying to gain an edge by spending a ton on coaches, building additional facilities, etc. There are programs paying 3 or 4 head coaches right now, due to their buyouts. There will always be poorly run schools and administrations, just like there will be poorly run corporations.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:58 pm to Baloo
quote:
Sure, a college athlete has received a great opportunity. But they signed a contract and agree to perform services in exchange of compensation. As per the terms of the contract, the school can control the athlete's performance and even restrict his ability to earn income elsewhere. How the hell ISN'T that employment? I don't even think this is a particularly close call.
Sure a college athlete has to make certain sacrifices, but it's up to each individual to decide whether or not it's worth it.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:58 pm to Baloo
quote:
As per the terms of the contract, the school can control the athlete's performance and even restrict his ability to earn income elsewhere. How the hell ISN'T that employment?
fine, call it employment. but it's still a contract the players have agreed upon
i'm sure NU provides all they can to current athletes pursuant to NCAA rules. if there were a defect, they would be crushed in recruiting
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:59 pm to SlowFlowPro
why not spinoff the football and basketball programs into a separated entity?
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:59 pm to Bama Bird
quote:which is what will happen when this gets out of hand.
They won't. All the NCAA has to do is declare unionized players ineligible and this ends.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 3:00 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
fine, call it employment. but it's still a contract the players have agreed upon
Sure. And now they can collectively bargain to alter the terms of that contract. What's wrong with a freely negotiated contract?
Damn, I wish people would f'n READ the damn decision before bitching about it.
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