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re: Last Week Tonight With John Oliver hammered the NCAA

Posted on 3/16/15 at 10:41 am to
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423792 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 10:41 am to
quote:

Also, why can't private donors help pay for athlete salaries?

title 9
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
65147 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 10:43 am to
quote:

why didn't they get a gymnast from valdosta state or a swimmer from texas state to speak on the issue? do you think those kids feel they're "getting fricked"?


Because the gymnast from Valdosta State and the swimmer from Texas State do not compete in sports that produce billions of dollars in revenue for their school, their conference and the NCAA as a whole. All without them seeing a dime of that money.

The football player at Alabama and the basketball player at Kentucky make it possible for the gymnast at Valdosta and the swimmer at Texas State to compete.
This post was edited on 3/16/15 at 10:45 am
Posted by saint amant steve
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2008
5695 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 10:43 am to
quote:

I did not. My parents put me through The University of Alabama and I suspect there are many more that were/are just like me.

All I had to do was show up for class and get decent grades.


And this is why college-aged individuals are labeled as entitled, lazy, apathetic, etc (let me clarify that I do not mean to insult you or make any such presumptions about you as an individual).

While there are a large number of individuals who are able to claim that their job is "making good grades", there are plenty of others who have to juggle work and school-related responsibilities simultaneously.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423792 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 10:45 am to
quote:

Because the gymnast from Valdosta State and the swimmer from Texas State do not compete in sports that produce billions of dollars in revenue for their school, their conference and the NCAA as a whole. All without them seeing a dime of that money.

they get scholarships on the back of those revenue-producing sports. without those sports, they don't get scholarships. if we have to pay the players in those big sports, that money means less available to give scholarships to them, and they may lose their scholarship.

and don't act like it's impossible. that very thing happened with Title 9
Posted by saint amant steve
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2008
5695 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 10:45 am to
quote:

like richard sherman


I never said that Sherman fell into the category of "inferior student-athletes". I am well-aware of his academic prowess and his education from one of the most reputable institutions in the country.

Sadly, he is the exception and not the norm in most cases.
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
65147 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 10:46 am to
quote:

While there are a large number of individuals who are able to claim that their job is "making good grades", there are plenty of others who have to juggle work and school-related responsibilities simultaneously.


I know that. I was simply highlighting that there is a large portion of the student population at these schools who do not. Thus validating Richard Sherman's point.

Posted by sms151t
Polos, Porsches, Ponies..PROBATION
Member since Aug 2009
139876 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 10:47 am to
Actually it is not Title IX that prevents the payment it is Title VI of the Civil Right law of 1964. Or that is what will be used first to show discrimination. Title IX is becoming the scapegoat. Judges have taken Title IX and expanded it way too far IMO. It was intended for jobs originally, such as females becoming principals instead of just teachers.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423792 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 10:48 am to
no i mean he would never have sniffed Stanford if he wasn't an athlete. he's not an idiot, but he didn't have "Stanford" stats
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
65147 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 10:48 am to
quote:

they get scholarships on the back of those revenue-producing sports. without those sports, they don't get scholarships.


And without those sports, the schools don't get the money and facilities they enjoy now. Football made The University of Alabama. And I suspect it made many of the schools in the SEC. Without these sports, the universities are not as financially successful as they are now. It's a symbiotic relationship. To deny this is to deny reality.
Posted by RandySavage
Member since May 2012
30907 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 10:59 am to
quote:

I agree with you regarding Napier but what did Sherman say that was untrue or unreasonable.

Do you disagree that it is hard balancing athletics in college?


I disagree that these guys are victims. As the video rightly points out it's laughable to pretend these guys are held to the same academic standards as the general student population. They also have access to all the help imaginable if they so choose.

But mainly, what's his point? He's complaining because he had to work hard for his cush million dollar job? Well, that's shocking. Oh and boo hoo. Making big money almost always requires hard work. I guarantee you every doctor in med school or lawyer in a legit law school would trade places with him in a second or the finance guys on Wall Street working 20 hour days.

The "average student" he is talking about also isn't getting a free ride, doesn't get free food and housing, will graduate and make like 45k, and work for the next 35-40 years to make half of what he will make in the next 9 months.
Posted by goldenbadger08
Sorting Out MSB BS Since 2011
Member since Oct 2011
37901 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 11:01 am to
quote:

But mainly, what's his point? He's complaining because he had to work hard for his cush million dollar job? Well, that's shocking. Oh and boo hoo. Making big money almost always requires hard work. I guarantee you every doctor in med school or lawyer in a legit law school would trade places with him in a second or the finance guys on Wall Street working 20 hour days.

The "average student" he is talking about also isn't getting a free ride, doesn't get free food and housing, will graduate and make like 45k, and work for the next 35-40 years to make half of what he will make in the next 9 months.
Posted by Dr RC
The Money Pit
Member since Aug 2011
58136 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 11:04 am to
quote:

why didn't they get a gymnast from valdosta state or a swimmer from texas state to speak on the issue? do you think those kids feel they're "getting fricked"?


In some ways they probably do.

But that isnt what this is really about.

Its the football and basketball players who make a shite ton of money for the school but do not get proper compensation.

They are getting screwed pure and simple.
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37426 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 11:12 am to
quote:

And without those sports, the schools don't get the money and facilities they enjoy now.


Money and facilties to provide for more sports. The amount of money they actually contribute to the school is often a building here or there, and maybe some extra cash. Here's one example, there are more:

quote:

Take the University of Alabama’s football team, for example, which had the third highest revenue during the 2011-2012 season, generating $110 million. While a typical SEC program spends around $27 million on its football team each year, Alabama reported about $41.5 million of operational expenses. Those expenses do not include the athletic department’s debt service payments, which would have added about $13 million more to its overall expenses. There was also $37 million of the athletic department’s budget not allocated to any particular sport or gender of athlete, and it’s not clear how much of that piece of the pie football received.

The information recorded by the U.S. Department of Education shows that Alabama football did indeed subsidize almost all other sports at the university. Basketball was the only other team in the black, bringing in $12 million while its expenses were only $6 million. The deficit for all women’s teams combined, for example, was just under $9 million. While these allocations also show that a good portion of Alabama football’s $110 million goes toward offsetting the costs of having a big-time athletic department, the data also shows that some top-tier football programs do in fact use a significant portion of its revenue to provide for the expenses of most of the athletic department.


LINK

Second problem:

quote:

Without these sports, the universities are not as financially successful as they are now.


Universities aren't really "successful," for one, most are just surviving. Two, science departments often bring more money directly into the university for the things they actually do, like learning.

Now, if you want to argue about the external dollars that the power of sports as a marketing tool brings in, that's yes, another discussion. But don't act like...

quote:

It's a symbiotic relationship. To deny this is to deny reality.


This anywhere near reality. It isn't. And honestly, universities, for what they intended, would be better off without sports as a business.
This post was edited on 3/16/15 at 11:14 am
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37426 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 11:15 am to
quote:

Its the football and basketball players who make a shite ton of money for the school but do not get proper compensation.

They are getting screwed pure and simple.


They are nowhere near screwed. They get a free education, which should be the ultimate goal. Much of the rest of the country is going into serious debt trying to do the same thing.
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 11:18 am to
Of course it would be reduced to this.

Are schools using private donations to pay female coaches off the books? If so, why do CFB and MBB get more money? How is that not a violation of title IX?
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
65147 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 11:20 am to
quote:

They get a free education


A bachelors isn't worth spit anymore. Most college grads I know are bussing tables at Olive Garden.

Plus it doesn't help that many of these athletes are as dumb as a box of rocks and are majoring in such worthwhile fields as sociology or cultural studies.
This post was edited on 3/16/15 at 11:22 am
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423792 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 11:25 am to
quote:

Are schools using private donations to pay female coaches off the books?

pretty sure TAF pays a large chunk of nikki caldwell's salary

Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423792 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 11:25 am to
quote:

Plus it doesn't help that many of these athletes are as dumb as a box of rocks and are majoring in such worthwhile fields as sociology or cultural studies.

so a better system is to not allow them to attempt to get a "worthless" degree? is that your argument? they'd be better off without college?
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
65147 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 11:25 am to
quote:

Money and facilties to provide for more sports. The amount of money they actually contribute to the school is often a building here or there, and maybe some extra cash. Here's one example, there are more:


I can guarantee you The University of Alabama would not be what it is today without its football program. Do you want to know why President Denny's name is all over that campus? It's because he launched a massive ad campaign in northern newspapers to bring their kids south to study at Alabama. His main selling point? The football team. Even today you get massive amounts of students from states north of the Mason-Dixon coming to UA. Their reasoning? "My family has always gone here."
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
65147 posts
Posted on 3/16/15 at 11:30 am to
quote:

so a better system is to not allow them to attempt to get a "worthless" degree? is that your argument? they'd be better off without college?


No. I think it's just asinine to claim that these kids coming to UA, LSU, AU, UF, etc. are there for the college education. Yeah...they're getting it for free. But let's not pretend that is their ultimate goal.

If there was a farm system for football like there is for baseball, I guarantee you college football would go the way of college baseball. You'd see a game or two on TV every now and then, but it wouldn't be the multi-billion dollar behemoth it is today. The same goes for basketball.
This post was edited on 3/16/15 at 11:32 am
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