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re: James Harden: "I thought winning was more important"
Posted on 4/10/17 at 9:09 am to Aggie Fishfinder
Posted on 4/10/17 at 9:09 am to Aggie Fishfinder
quote:
rockets in 6. Adams and Kanter are going to pose a challenge down low for the Rockets in a couple games.
Just hoping OKC runs 'em ragged tbh.
2
Posted on 4/10/17 at 9:11 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:
Harden lost MVP 2 years ago despite putting up better stats with a weaker team.
Except he really didn't put up better stats, especially when you bring percentages in
But pretty hypocritical of Harden given his comments that year too
I mean Curry shot 48%, set the 3 point record, and had more assists and steals per game desipte playing 4 less minutes.
This post was edited on 4/10/17 at 9:17 am
Posted on 4/10/17 at 9:16 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:He had better raw totals than Curry, but he played 4 more minutes per game.
Harden lost MVP 2 years ago despite putting up better stats with a weaker team.
Curry was ahead of Harden in: PER, WS/48, Box Score +\-, real +/-, and VORP.
So Harden didn't have "better stats." And if you want to focus on team wins, GSW was +11 on Houston, while Houston is +8 on OKC and can finish anywhere from +6 to +10.
Posted on 4/10/17 at 9:18 am to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
Just hoping OKC runs 'em ragged tbh.
Doesn't matter bro. These are your father's Spurs. Core doesn't consist of the big 3 and Pop has no chance to out coach D'Antoni. WCF for CC easily.
Posted on 4/10/17 at 9:18 am to TigerBait1127
quote:
Except he really didn't put up better stats, especially when you bring percentages in
So wait, the percentages counted 2 years ago but not this year when Harden has the better % but not the better counting stats? It's the same thing. Curry had the better team, was more efficient but Harden had the better counting stats.
This year Harden has the better team, more wins and better %s.
Like I said, I have no problem with Westbrook winning, but some of you continue to talk out of your arse.
Posted on 4/10/17 at 9:20 am to StrongSafety
Two years ago he was in a spot kinda similar to Russ this year. He lost the award to Curry on the basis of having less wins. I would be upset to if the goal post changed
Posted on 4/10/17 at 9:23 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:
So wait, the percentages counted 2 years ago but not this year when Harden has the better % but not the better counting stats?
Where the frick have I said that? Pretty positive I'm looking at everything.
Curry, in less minutes, also had more assists and steals. He set the NBA record from 3. He was better in the TO department as well
Also, the disparity in % isn't even close. Curry shot better from 3 in 15 than Harden did from the floor. There was a 4.7% difference in 2015, compared to 1.3% this year.
Harden's having a great year at 43.9% > 42.6%. there is a .02% difference from 3. That isn't near enough to overcome it. Harden is also playing more minutes....
Westbrook has him in Pts, rebounds (by over 2/game), and Steals despite playing ~2 less minutes a game
quote:
Like I said, I have no problem with Westbrook winning, but some of you continue to talk out of your arse.
Is that what you call it when you're putting words in other people's mouths?
Nice to see harden doing the same thing since 2015....
This post was edited on 4/10/17 at 9:29 am
Posted on 4/10/17 at 9:25 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:
It's only stupid this year. It's never been stupid in the past. Harden lost MVP 2 years ago despite putting up better stats with a weaker team. Curry had Klay, Dray and Iggy on a loaded team, but he got the MVP because if wins.
This year it's the opposite, although Harden's numbers are much closer to Westbrooks than Curry's were to his. The goal posts keep changing
A) Curry led Harden in basically every meaningful advanced number in 2014-2015: PER 28.0 - 26.7, WS/48 .288 - .265, Box Plus/Minus 9.9 - 8.4, VORP 7.9 - 7.8
B) Harden and Curry were much closer in 2015 than Harden is to Westbrook this year, at least as far as advanced numbers are concerned.
C) The only reason Russ isn't a lock for the MVP this year is because of Houston's success. Their wins are being weighted heavily and are keeping Harden in the race.
Posted on 4/10/17 at 9:27 am to Boomshockalocka
You don't think Westbrook deserves the MVP?????
Posted on 4/10/17 at 9:35 am to PortCityTiger24
Per 48:
Curry vs Harden
Pts: 34.8 vs 35.7 (.8 difference)
Assists: 11.3 vs 9.1 (2.2 difference)
Rebounds: 6.3 vs 7.4 (1.1 difference)
Turnovers: 4.55 vs 5.2 (.7 difference)
Steals: 2.9 vs 2.5 (.4 difference)
FG%: 48.7 vs 44 (4.7% difference)
3 point %: 44.3 vs 37.5 (6.8 difference)
It's a pretty huge reach to say Harden had better stats. The %s stand out because they aren't even close.
Curry vs Harden
Pts: 34.8 vs 35.7 (.8 difference)
Assists: 11.3 vs 9.1 (2.2 difference)
Rebounds: 6.3 vs 7.4 (1.1 difference)
Turnovers: 4.55 vs 5.2 (.7 difference)
Steals: 2.9 vs 2.5 (.4 difference)
FG%: 48.7 vs 44 (4.7% difference)
3 point %: 44.3 vs 37.5 (6.8 difference)
It's a pretty huge reach to say Harden had better stats. The %s stand out because they aren't even close.
This post was edited on 4/10/17 at 9:39 am
Posted on 4/10/17 at 9:43 am to LittleRockHog501
Also a big thing I think everyone ignores is that a big part of Harden's argument two years ago was that the Rockets were constantly losing key rotation guys to injury.
Posted on 4/10/17 at 9:50 am to TigerBait1127
Westbrook vs Harden per 48
Pts 44 vs 38.5 (5.5 difference)
Assists - 14.3 vs 14.9 (0.5)
Reb - 14.8 vs 10.7 (4.1)
TOs - 7.4 vs 7.6 (.2 diff)
Steals - 2.3 vs 2.0 (.3 difference)
% - 42.6 vs 43.9 (1.3 diff)
3% - 34.4 vs 34.6 (0.2 diff)
Yep, exactly the same thing in 2015.
Talk about coming out of your arse
Pts 44 vs 38.5 (5.5 difference)
Assists - 14.3 vs 14.9 (0.5)
Reb - 14.8 vs 10.7 (4.1)
TOs - 7.4 vs 7.6 (.2 diff)
Steals - 2.3 vs 2.0 (.3 difference)
% - 42.6 vs 43.9 (1.3 diff)
3% - 34.4 vs 34.6 (0.2 diff)
Yep, exactly the same thing in 2015.
Talk about coming out of your arse
This post was edited on 4/10/17 at 9:51 am
Posted on 4/10/17 at 10:00 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:Debateable
Harden lost MVP 2 years ago despite putting up better stats with a weaker team
quote:No, Curry's numbers were better, I'm guessing that's the general take on that. It may be close, but I'd imagine saying Harden had better stats is the minority opinion. Either way, it's not some runaway that Harden had better numbers like you're insinuating.
This year it's the opposite, although Harden's numbers are much closer to Westbrooks than Curry's were to his. The goal posts keep changing.
quote:Lucky for me, i'm consistent in my valuation of individuals, so your doubts are unfounded if applied it across the board.
I am fine with Russ winning it because he's been a beast, but you can't say the winning argument is dumb when there stats are so close, because I doubt you were saying that 2 years ago.
Posted on 4/10/17 at 10:02 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:If you mean that Curry led Harden and now Westbrook led Harden in the majority of the catch all stats, then yes, it is the same thing.
It's the same thing.
Posted on 4/10/17 at 10:14 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:Curry led Harden in almost every single advanced metric, and he had a +11 team win advantage.
It's the same thing. Curry had the better team, was more efficient but Harden had the better counting stats.
This year, Westbrook is ahead of Harden in most advanced metrics (PER, Box +\-, VORP, Real +/-), and Harden's team win advantage will be anywhere from +6 to +10.
So Harden is deserving, but 2014-2015 is not very comparable. Curry was clearly ahead of Harden, while the same can't be for Harden over Westbrook, and in fact, most metrics point to Westbrook.
This post was edited on 4/10/17 at 10:15 am
Posted on 4/10/17 at 10:15 am to redfishfan
quote:
Doesn't matter bro. These are your father's Spurs. Core doesn't consist of the big 3 and Pop has no chance to out coach D'Antoni. WCF for CC easily.
Ah you just forgot to put "The Spurs are a Regular season team" and it wouldv been spot on
Posted on 4/10/17 at 10:16 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:hahahahahha
Harden lost MVP 2 years ago despite putting up better stats
Posted on 4/10/17 at 11:38 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:
I am fine with Russ winning it because he's been a beast, but you can't say the winning argument is dumb when there stats are so close, because I doubt you were saying that 2 years ago.
You're ignoring the fact that the Warriors had the best record in the NBA that season. They didn't just have a better record than the Rockets. If Houston had the best record in the NBA this season, then the argument would be the same.
He can't say, "I thought winning mattered", when there are two teams with better records than Houston.
Posted on 4/10/17 at 11:44 am to Epic Cajun
It's a two man race. Of the two harden has much more wins. It ain't hard to figure it out.
Posted on 4/10/17 at 11:58 am to Boomshockalocka
He has 8 more wins than Westbrook. Kawhi has 7 more wins than Harden. Curry has even more wins...
Leading your team to the third best record isn't an accomplishment. Leading your team to the best record is.
Leading your team to the third best record isn't an accomplishment. Leading your team to the best record is.
This post was edited on 4/10/17 at 12:07 pm
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