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re: hardest pitch to hit

Posted on 8/25/13 at 2:34 pm to
Posted by MasterBetty
Monroe, LA
Member since Apr 2012
894 posts
Posted on 8/25/13 at 2:34 pm to
quote:

Will always be The Changeup.

When setup and thrown properly it is by far the hardest pitch to hit at any level.


/thread
Posted by CyrustheVirus
Member since Jan 2013
2870 posts
Posted on 8/25/13 at 2:56 pm to
quote:

And no, a well thrown split, is even better. Same thing as a change up but with more movement which increases the difficulty.


I agree that it is a good pitch, but a split has different spin and allows the hitter to read it earlier than a good change up.
Posted by Interception
Member since Nov 2008
11089 posts
Posted on 8/25/13 at 9:22 pm to
quote:

Change-ups are the best off-speed pitch if the pitcher has a nasty one.

It's certainly not 3rd fiddle.



Okay select 1 of 2 choices

A. Great Fastball, Great Slider, Average Change-Up

B. Great Fastball, Average Slider, Great Change-Up

ETA: I'm going A
This post was edited on 8/25/13 at 9:23 pm
Posted by medtiger
Member since Sep 2003
21662 posts
Posted on 8/25/13 at 9:27 pm to
quote:

CyrustheVirus


please carry on.

*Edited for more fun
This post was edited on 8/25/13 at 9:35 pm
Posted by heartbreakTiger
grinding for my grinders
Member since Jan 2008
138974 posts
Posted on 8/25/13 at 9:29 pm to
You ruined the fun
Posted by VerlanderBEAST
Member since Dec 2011
18984 posts
Posted on 8/25/13 at 9:38 pm to
quote:

Will always be The Changeup.

When setup and thrown properly it is by far the hardest pitch to hit at any level.
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
71035 posts
Posted on 8/25/13 at 9:58 pm to
Ted Williams said the slider was the hardest.
Posted by PrimeTime Money
Houston, Texas, USA
Member since Nov 2012
27305 posts
Posted on 8/25/13 at 10:16 pm to
quote:

Okay select 1 of 2 choices A. Great Fastball, Great Slider, Average Change-Up B. Great Fastball, Average Slider, Great Change-Up ETA: I'm going A
B. It's a no-brainer.

A pitcher with a sick change-up is nasty. It is the best pitch to compliment a fastball.

Change-ups are not amazing for most people, and so it doesn't work all that well for them. So overall you'd say change-ups aren't that good because not that many people can throw a good one. But if you can throw a nasty change, it is the best pitch in baseball.

Here is something I found online while looking to strengthen my argument:

"We know that pitchers have reputations as being the master of a particular pitch, but which pitchers cause the most swings and misses? Whose slider has the most break? What's the most valuable pitch overall?



In terms of total pitch value, nobody got more mileage out of a pitch than Kershaw and the fastball, generating 25.5 cumulative runs above average. However, for starters it appears that Chris Sale’s changeup takes the cake, matched only by Kelvin Herrera’s change from the reliever group in terms of value per 100 pitches."

If you want more context, here is the link:

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2012/10/17/3514442/MLB-best-pitches-ranked-filthy-dickey-kershaw-darvish

Posted by LfcSU3520
Arizona
Member since Dec 2003
24466 posts
Posted on 8/25/13 at 11:45 pm to
quote:

I agree that it is a good pitch, but a split has different spin and allows the hitter to read it earlier than a good change up.



no it doesn't. A well thrown split isn't recognizable by spin. It spins forward tightly so it blurs and looks like a fastball. That's why people swing and miss at splits that bounce a foot in front of the plate.
Posted by Alan Garner
thigh-land
Member since Oct 2009
3433 posts
Posted on 8/25/13 at 11:47 pm to
change-up
Posted by BCMCubs
Colorado
Member since Nov 2011
22146 posts
Posted on 8/25/13 at 11:50 pm to
The knowledge. Continue bringing it.
Posted by LfcSU3520
Arizona
Member since Dec 2003
24466 posts
Posted on 8/25/13 at 11:52 pm to
quote:

B. Great Fastball, Average Slider, Great Change-Up


99% of all big league hitters would much rather face pitcher A

option A is Jeremy Bonderman a few years ago.

option B is Johan Santana

Typically most of the dominating pitchers you can think of (starters) are at or maintain that level because of their change ups (or splits) and it rarely gets discussed.



Posted by LfcSU3520
Arizona
Member since Dec 2003
24466 posts
Posted on 8/25/13 at 11:56 pm to
quote:

12-6 curve


This is the correct answer, followed closely by a good slider



I can't tell you how wrong this is at higher levels.

No matter what, something about a curveball will look different to a hitter out of the hand. It will usually pop up, or the hand angle will be noticeable. Because of that, it means it's rarely ever a true weapon. For some it can be good when used properly, but good hitters never fear it.

Posted by LfcSU3520
Arizona
Member since Dec 2003
24466 posts
Posted on 8/26/13 at 12:02 am to
quote:

However, for starters it appears that Chris Sale’s changeup takes the cake, matched only by Kelvin Herrera’s change from the reliever group in terms of value per 100 pitches."



this is great because how a pitcher is perceived outside of the batter's box is usually wrong. Sale is pure fastball, slider- change is his best pitch (same went for CC last few years).

Felix, nobody wants anything to do with his changeup.

Johan Santana used to tip his pitches (subtle things the hitter can see so he knows what's coming) and it didn't make any difference because his changes were that good (this was during his Cy Young years, hitters almost always knew what was coming).

Verlander's stuff is great, but it's his changeup that took him into the elite category in the eyes of hitters.



Posted by Tiger1242
Member since Jul 2011
31910 posts
Posted on 8/26/13 at 12:07 am to
Major league hitters are such scrubs

You obviously don't know what you're talking about, or you wouldn't have taken a line drive to the face

I kid I kid
Posted by LfcSU3520
Arizona
Member since Dec 2003
24466 posts
Posted on 8/26/13 at 12:12 am to
this isn't a joke- The last thought I had before I threw that pitch was, this would be a great time for a change up.

Without it, I can't keep hitters like that off balance, so they can look to one side of the plate and lunge.
Posted by Boudreaux35
BR
Member since Sep 2007
21449 posts
Posted on 8/26/13 at 8:39 am to
quote:

What's toughest? A good knuckleball? Slider? Curve?


Key part of that question is "good knuckleball". Most knuckleball are crap. They don't move at all. A good knuckleball is hard to catch, let alone hit. Even if the pitcher screams it out before he throws it, a good one is completely unpredictable...At least the other pitches follow a smooth path.

Go take a look at some of the videos of catchers crapping on themselves trying to handle some of the better knuckleballers like Niekro and Hough and Wakefield.
Posted by EvrybodysAllAmerican
Member since Apr 2013
11154 posts
Posted on 8/26/13 at 9:09 am to
Gyroball
Posted by nofear67
Houston
Member since Jan 2006
2285 posts
Posted on 8/26/13 at 11:42 am to
I don't think it's a curve ball. My son's best advice to hitting a curve ball has paid huge dividends.

Advice: Don't miss the fast ball!
Posted by Username1
Member since Nov 2012
19 posts
Posted on 8/26/13 at 5:44 pm to
Backdoor slider that almost hits your back knee. By far, the toughest pitch in baseball.
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