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Message
re: The Coach Orgeron Vision/Plan
Posted on 12/15/16 at 5:17 pm to apfour21
Posted on 12/15/16 at 5:17 pm to apfour21
quote:
No it really doesn't. You can have the nicest ship in the world with the best crew but it's not gonna be worth a damn without a good captain.
Good analogy. The captain does not do everything. He sets the attitude and direction of the crew and voyage. The navigator plots the specific path. The deckhand does his job as directed. The engineer takes care of the engines. Damn-- with your own analogy-- Coach O sounds like a pretty damn good captain. Thanks for convincing me.
ETA: Geaux Tigers!
This post was edited on 12/15/16 at 5:20 pm
1
Posted on 12/15/16 at 5:37 pm to beauxroux
quote:
beauxroux
Have an upvote Sir.
Posted on 12/15/16 at 5:38 pm to THECEO
It's a lot like Trump being elected. He wasn't my first choice but he's putting a killer cabinet in place to make up for his deficiencies. Good luck to them both.
Posted on 12/15/16 at 7:10 pm to THECEO
Thanks Derek
Posted on 12/15/16 at 8:27 pm to THECEO
The original post is practically a clinic on the most annoying facets of the most annoying O devotees on this site.
First, a Cajun/Louisiana heritage does not constitute a coaching strength in any rational world.
Second, if it required decades of planning to generate two flimsy binders that any MBA student with access to a Kinko's could surpass in a single cappuccino fueled all-nighter, I'm terrified of the future.
Third, please stop insinuating that O could "evolve" into Saban when he has a losing record as a HC and has never even coached a bowl.
Fourth, don't compare LSU's need to obtain great coordinators with Bama and Ohio State. Those teams both have tactical geniuses as HCS (one defensive, the other offensive). LSU has a much greater need for elite coordinators because our HC has no prowess on either side of the ball.
Finally, please don't pretend that O strategically decided to accept a lower salary in order to benefit LSU and implement his master stroke. He was paid a lower salary because no one else wanted to hire him and, hence, he had no leverage. In short, his market value was much lower.
The only thing you say which withstands scrutiny is that the O approach cannot be assessed until actual games are played over the course of a full season or two. The coordinator hires look promising, but that means nothing unless it translates into victory.
Your entire post was premature celebration. Let's see how things play out before we indulge in sanctimonious lectures directed at other LSU fans. Next up is the bowl, then signing day. We need a consensus top 5/10 class.
First, a Cajun/Louisiana heritage does not constitute a coaching strength in any rational world.
Second, if it required decades of planning to generate two flimsy binders that any MBA student with access to a Kinko's could surpass in a single cappuccino fueled all-nighter, I'm terrified of the future.
Third, please stop insinuating that O could "evolve" into Saban when he has a losing record as a HC and has never even coached a bowl.
Fourth, don't compare LSU's need to obtain great coordinators with Bama and Ohio State. Those teams both have tactical geniuses as HCS (one defensive, the other offensive). LSU has a much greater need for elite coordinators because our HC has no prowess on either side of the ball.
Finally, please don't pretend that O strategically decided to accept a lower salary in order to benefit LSU and implement his master stroke. He was paid a lower salary because no one else wanted to hire him and, hence, he had no leverage. In short, his market value was much lower.
The only thing you say which withstands scrutiny is that the O approach cannot be assessed until actual games are played over the course of a full season or two. The coordinator hires look promising, but that means nothing unless it translates into victory.
Your entire post was premature celebration. Let's see how things play out before we indulge in sanctimonious lectures directed at other LSU fans. Next up is the bowl, then signing day. We need a consensus top 5/10 class.
This post was edited on 12/15/16 at 8:31 pm
Posted on 12/15/16 at 8:45 pm to SL Tiger
quote:
CEO can focus on what he does best. Recruit, inspire, and motivate
Yep, good summary.
Posted on 12/15/16 at 11:28 pm to Brazos
quote:
Don't act like he did LSU a favor by taking a low salary,come on.
What are you talking about? That's what allowed us to pay more $ for better coordinators? Dear god
Posted on 12/16/16 at 4:55 am to Ponchy Tiger
quote:
Thanks Derek
The convicted felon?
Posted on 12/16/16 at 6:00 am to DmitriKaramazov
Both you and the OP have good points. I know for sure we are better off at the coaching position now then we were this time last year so that is a plus. The question is how much better.
Coach O's ultimate success will depend on his ability to recruit key players/positions and to keep the coordinator roles stocked with capable coaches.
The one thing I am beginning to like about CEO is that he is flexible and seems to learn from his mistakes unlike CLM. Time will tell if this was a
bad-good-or great hire. You are correct in that its a little early to be celebrating, I think most fans see an upswing in our game and are getting excited. Shame on them.
Coach O's ultimate success will depend on his ability to recruit key players/positions and to keep the coordinator roles stocked with capable coaches.
The one thing I am beginning to like about CEO is that he is flexible and seems to learn from his mistakes unlike CLM. Time will tell if this was a
bad-good-or great hire. You are correct in that its a little early to be celebrating, I think most fans see an upswing in our game and are getting excited. Shame on them.
Posted on 12/16/16 at 6:01 am to DmitriKaramazov
You started your lecture by calling fans and insulting a culture. Then you concluded your 8 paragraph lecture lambasting the OP prediction and substituting your own of demise with--
"Hello pot. This is the kettle."
quote:
Let's see how things play out before we indulge in sanctimonious lectures directed at other LSU fans.
"Hello pot. This is the kettle."
Posted on 12/16/16 at 6:13 am to LSUboudreau
quote:
What are you talking about? That's what allowed us to pay more $ for better coordinators? Dear god
You are worth what the market deems you are worth. O did LSU no favors by accepting 3.5 mil...in fact, if Alleva had said $2.5 mil, what was O going to do, not take it? What school was he about to then go to where he was going to make anything approaching that number? And please stop with this insane theory that O took less so LSU could pay their coordinators more. LSU was going to pay their coordinators WHAT THE MARKET DICTATED! Aranda was going to get his money regardless if we paid O $3.5 mil, Herman $5 mil, Les $5.5 mil, or Jimbo $6 mil. And couldn't you just as easily (or probably more easily) make the argument that you have to pay coordinators top $$ b/c the coach you hired is not particularly adept at either side of the ball? You wouldn't have NEEDED a $1mil offensive coordinator if you hired the likes of Jimbo or Herman.
Posted on 12/16/16 at 6:35 am to DmitriKaramazov
Sanctimonious lectures? Pot meet kettle?
Posted on 12/16/16 at 6:39 am to THECEO
The greatest joy for me would be seeing the yearly melt from ole miss fans having to admit coach o was not as bad as they made him out to be 
.
.Posted on 12/16/16 at 7:26 am to FLObserver
quote:
The greatest joy for me would be seeing the yearly melt from ole miss fans having to admit coach o was not as bad as they made him out to be .
Well, we'll get to see it Coach O learned anything from the idiot. If he will let his coordinators do the coaching, particularly on offense, I think the pure talent level of our players will make LSU a formidable opponent.
Posted on 12/16/16 at 7:30 am to THECEO
quote:
Coach Orgeron knows his leverage and his strengths.
His leverage/strengths are his Louisiana/Cajun heritage,
Where else besides this section of Louisiana is this considered a "strength". We are not fielding a team of players from Cutoff and Boothville-Venice.
quote:
Coach O knows that his way to succeed in his dream job is to take a decidedly CEO-style approach, and to obtain and empower great coordinators and position coaches, while he recruits, organizes, addresses the media as the LSU football figure head
arse-backwards way of doing things. Usually, you impart your coaching brand on a team and as you get up in age, you "become" a figurehead as an earned right.
quote:
As time moves on, he could evolve to that level of a coach and persona
Really? How? By giving inspirational speeches while the more talented coaches X and O LSU to championships?
quote:
Anyone who is not pleased with the staff he has assembled is trammeled to a poor attitude, or does not appreciate how hard it is to get such a staff onboard.
How hard is it to hire a staff that was already assembled? What particular amount of genius did it take to pay Aranda (a Les hire) his $? How difficult was it to make a list of 4 "hot shot" OCs and overpay one of them? You don't mention that CEO damn near cost LSU 2 QBs with that ridiculous offer to the hawaiian QB, or that allowing himself to be used by his "friend" Kiffin actually did cost us a QB.
quote:
He took a salary which facilitated salary margin to get such a great staff.
NO NO NO! He was mercifully given $3.5 mil...the market dictated he be given less. What other school was prepared to a) hire him as HC and b) give him anything approaching $3.5 mil? Take the blinders off and look at reality. Kiffin is the hotshot OC of what will be a back-to-back Bama squad and is universally praised as the reason for its current success...and he is coaching at FAU...for $1 mil...and he is vastly more important to a school than O.
quote:
He knows that most big time programs are a rotating door at the OC and DC positions, so he will be assembling a constant list of candidates for when Aranda and Canada get their mid-major HC opportunity
THIS is one of the biggest reasons NOT to hire a "figurehead". Yes OCs and DCs leave, but a team should carry the same philosophy as the HC on whatever side of the ball the HC excels in. If you don't excel on any side of the ball then you're just constantly hiring coaches hoping they do as well as the last coach. That's a ridiculous way to run a program. And what do you tell your recruits about this revolving 2 year door with your OC and DC when they ask who their coach is going to be? Don't worry, I have a binder?
I understand getting behind a coach b/c he's not going anywhere, but just b/c you pour syrup on sh!t don't make it pancakes. This coaching hire was supposed to be about ONE THING...BEATING BAMA! Either you believe hiring CEO gets you to that point or you don't. But if you're telling me that we hired him to rah rah and give motivational speeches, I'm not too pleased. And I would really hope at some point his "recruiting" prowess would stop being kicked up to mythical proportions. We were a top 5 recruiting powerhouse for years before him and I'm not sure of one recruit he delivered that we would NOT have otherwise gotten. Can he just be a damn good recruiter and not this legend we believe him to be? Deliver the kid LSU has no business getting and then we can start cannonizing him for his recruiting prowess.
Posted on 12/16/16 at 7:36 am to THECEO
TheCEO, great job!
Posted on 12/16/16 at 7:40 am to THECEO
So we all know you're Derek now
Posted on 12/16/16 at 8:11 am to iluvbrokli
Breathe. Slowly. Deep breaths. Better? Good. Now let's address your points.
Remind me again-- In what state is LSU located?
Not true. Some of the greatest leaders in history of business, military and even coaching employ this very style.
You may want to ask the programs who lost coaches to other schools. LSU poached not one but two great coordinators from other programs. One may ask how hard is it to keep a staff together? Even your own example of Kiffin leaving Bama helps prove this point.
Your final argument is that Coach O does not excel on either side of the ball. Therefore he cannot he cannot be successful when a coordinator leaves, as will happen at every program. Two glaring deficiencies with that argument: (1) your premise is not correct. Just bc O has not been a coordinator does not mean he is without knowledge. Nor does it mean he does not excel on one side, the other or both; and (2) Coach O has already shown an ability to keep a great D.C. and recruit another OC to come here. I read where Canada turned down many other power 5 OC offers. He must have been really impressed with O and LSU to come here.
It's a bit early to have a beer. So just relax and be happy for the upward direction LSU seems to be moving. Oh and one last thing-- GEAUX TIGERS,
quote:
Where else besides this section of Louisiana is this considered a "strength".
Remind me again-- In what state is LSU located?
quote:
arse-backwards way of doing things.
Not true. Some of the greatest leaders in history of business, military and even coaching employ this very style.
quote:
How hard is it to hire a staff that was already assembled?
You may want to ask the programs who lost coaches to other schools. LSU poached not one but two great coordinators from other programs. One may ask how hard is it to keep a staff together? Even your own example of Kiffin leaving Bama helps prove this point.
Your final argument is that Coach O does not excel on either side of the ball. Therefore he cannot he cannot be successful when a coordinator leaves, as will happen at every program. Two glaring deficiencies with that argument: (1) your premise is not correct. Just bc O has not been a coordinator does not mean he is without knowledge. Nor does it mean he does not excel on one side, the other or both; and (2) Coach O has already shown an ability to keep a great D.C. and recruit another OC to come here. I read where Canada turned down many other power 5 OC offers. He must have been really impressed with O and LSU to come here.
It's a bit early to have a beer. So just relax and be happy for the upward direction LSU seems to be moving. Oh and one last thing-- GEAUX TIGERS,
Posted on 12/16/16 at 8:17 am to THECEO
quote:
Coach Orgeron knows his leverage and his strengths.
His leverage/strengths are his Louisiana/Cajun heritage, his coaching experiences (DT, HC, etc...), his relationship skills, his recruiting prowess, his strong motivational skillset, and the fact that his players love him. He also has the binder, which many make fun of, but which shows he has been preparing for this opportunity for a couple of decades, inclusive of his coaching under and with National Championship and Super Bowl champion coaches.
As such, Coach O knows that his way to succeed in his dream job is to take a decidedly CEO-style approach, and to obtain and empower great coordinators and position coaches, while he recruits, organizes, addresses the media as the LSU football figure head, and through practice and game day motivation and management.
So essentially Orgeron is getting 3.5 Mil a year to be LSU's HC (Head Cheerleader) and Coonass Icon. I guess it could work, but I still think he's over paid for what he does. IMO his contract should have been heavy on the incentive side and next to nothing on the guarantee end.
This is what an unproven or failed HC contract should look like:
Term: 4 year contract( anything less would hurt recruiting)
Salary: 1 Mil per year (Unproven HC shouldn't get big time guaranteed money)
Incentives: 250K for power 5 non conference and SEC regular season win (2.5 Mil total)
1 Mil for SEC west champion
1.5 Mil for SEC Champion
100-750K for winning non play off bowl game depending on the bowl.
1.5 Mil for playoff win
2.5 Mil for National Champion
Win SEC west guarantee 30% increase in base salary with contract extension.
Win SEC 50% increase in base salary with contract extension.
Win natty and double base salary with a contract extension.
That could be a 9 million dollar bonus with a salary increase and a contract extension!
Posted on 12/16/16 at 8:23 am to Tigris Christi
quote:
So essentially Orgeron is getting 3.5 Mil a year to be LSU's HC (Head Cheerleader) and Coonass Icon. I guess it could work, but I still think he's over paid for what he does.
While I have no real objection to an incentive-laden contract, your lack of knowledge of all that is required of a HC is astonishing.
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