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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
311297 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013

quote:

there is more incentive to leave even if you get drafted 5-7 round than there was before

but there isn't. THAT is the point

the late round guys are still in the same boat. the new CBA didn't affect those draft slots/salaries

people need to stop saying this with regards to guys like faulk, turner, hilliard, ware, etc


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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
311297 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
quote:

I guess the decision for those guys though really comes down to if they think they can move OUT of the late rounds and into early ones with one more year in college. If not, probably worth the risk to leave. But, there are probably a lot of Trev Faulks out there.

trev faulk wasn't going to improve his draft slot by coming back. what incentive did he have to do so?


SettleDown
LSU Fan
Everywhere
Member since Nov 2013
1333 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
quote:


No rookie can't renegotiate the contract until after their third year. So if a 2nd rounder and 6th rounder are going to make marginally different money, go ahead and start the clock to get to the second contract.
This to me is the big driving factor. Not that late round picks don't make much but that under the old CBA, the value of being in the early rounds was so great it was worth the risk. The new CBA significantly deflated what the early round picks are getting.


SettleDown
LSU Fan
Everywhere
Member since Nov 2013
1333 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
quote:

trev faulk wasn't going to improve his draft slot by coming back. what incentive did he have to do so?

Well, that's kind of what I mean. A player needs to be able to be honest in the mirror about if he thinks he can elevate out of the late rounds. If not, probably should go ahead and go.

Now though, he has to REALLY believe it because a small move up really isn't that significant. You pretty much have to believe that this year, you'll be a 5th rounder but that for some reason, you might get into the 1st round next year.


Sterling Archer
LSU Fan
NYC
Member since Aug 2012
2306 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
quote:

are we talking from initial eligibility or what?


Yes from initial draft eligibility


Sal Minella
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2006
1621 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
quote:

I can't think of any guys that improved their draft status by coming back to school. Anyone can help me out?


Jadaveon Clowney and his 3 sacks this year? Um, no.


SettleDown
LSU Fan
Everywhere
Member since Nov 2013
1333 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
quote:

I can't think of any guys that improved their draft status by coming back to school. Anyone can help me out?
Well, off the top of my head, if he doesn't get hurt, Mett obviously vastly improved his status. Even with the injury, probably improved.


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
311297 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
quote:

A player needs to be able to be honest in the mirror about if he thinks he can elevate out of the late rounds. If not, probably should go ahead and go.

that + transferring falling out of favor = more players leaving


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Sterling Archer
LSU Fan
NYC
Member since Aug 2012
2306 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
quote:

Jadaveon Clowney and his 3 sacks this year? Um, no.



He wasn't draft eligible last year.


Sterling Archer
LSU Fan
NYC
Member since Aug 2012
2306 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
quote:

Well, off the top of my head, if he doesn't get hurt, Mett obviously vastly improved his status. Even with the injury, probably improved.


For sure, didn't even think about him. Probably because I don't think he ever considered leaving after his jr year. Of course I really don't know


EarthwormJim
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2005
9846 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
quote:

This to me is the big driving factor. Not that late round picks don't make much but that under the old CBA, the value of being in the early rounds was so great it was worth the risk. The new CBA significantly deflated what the early round picks are getting.


Right. Leaving early makes sense for some guys who reached their ceiling or close to it like Ware or Ford. But a guy like Turner doesn't make too much sense. He's not ready for the NFL. Even if he marginally improves his stock, it will still be worth coming back to school to prepare for what the NFL is.



Sal Minella
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2006
1621 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
quote:

He wasn't draft eligible last year.


You're right, my bad. But the premise remains the same. Had he been he'd been the #1 pick, according to Kiper. He won't be this year.


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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
311297 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
quote:

Yes from initial draft eligibility

just LSU guys just in the Miles era...

jamarucs, laron, bowe, whitworth, buster davis, lafell, dorsey, tyson jackson, matt flynn, bennie logan, kevin minter...


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SettleDown
LSU Fan
Everywhere
Member since Nov 2013
1333 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
quote:

But a guy like Turner doesn't make too much sense. He's not ready for the NFL. Even if he marginally improves his stock, it will still be worth coming back to school to prepare for what the NFL is.


Yep. That's the tricky part. Yeah. Get to that 2nd contract. BUT, ya gotta be good enough to stick now in order to do that. I think some of these guys are looking straight down the barrel of complete unemployment by September.

In those cases, ya might as well come back on the chance, even if slim, you can improve your stock and ability.


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Mudminnow
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2004
28891 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
All this talk of getting a second contract early and the majority of those guys will not get a second contract.

It's basically one shot to earn some cash.


SettleDown
LSU Fan
Everywhere
Member since Nov 2013
1333 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
quote:

For sure, didn't even think about him. Probably because I don't think he ever considered leaving after his jr year. Of course I really don't know

Well. By season's end, he probably didn't consider it. But, I'll bet that had he gone to the combine, he'd have been in a better situation than some of the guys we did have come out both last year and this.

You can bet if he'd have put up numbers last year like he did this year though, he probably leaves.

Real point though is, that's the kind of guy that stays. A guy that can look at the lay of the land and honestly feel he will have dramatically better on field results the following year.


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
311297 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
quote:

Real point though is, that's the kind of guy that stays. A guy that can look at the lay of the land and honestly feel he will have dramatically better on field results the following year.

at the same time he and murray are also cautionary tales, b/c they both got hurt late in the year and this will make them slide at least a round, possibly 2-3 rounds. that eliminates any gains they made this year


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TigerDeBaiter
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2010
3267 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
quote:

So there is not a noticeable difference in the rookie contracts you found pre-CBA and post-CBA. The CBA did not markedly affect the guaranteed money late-round picks receive. Hell, the differences in signing bonus don't even appear to be rising with standard inflation.


I thought the whole argument was there's now no incentive to stay and improve your draft status because of the caps put on the first few rounds? Not that the lower round picks now make any less.

Not real clear what you were pointing out here or what it was in reference to honestly, so maybe agreeing ?


SettleDown
LSU Fan
Everywhere
Member since Nov 2013
1333 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
quote:

All this talk of getting a second contract early and the majority of those guys will not get a second contract.

Agreed. I think that the real stats for a 5th rounder when you combine being waived plus injuries are not very good.

quote:

It's basically one shot to earn some cash.

Yep. And, under the old CBA, as long as you didn't think you'd fall, staying made some sense because you might rise into noticably better money.

Now, the rise would have to be dramatic to make much of a difference money wise. Hence, people leave. The motivator now is the lack of big early round money in comparison.


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
311297 posts

re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
quote:

I thought the whole argument was there's now no incentive to stay and improve your draft status because of the caps put on the first few rounds?

there is still a pretty big difference in a 3rd round contract and a 5th round contract, but guys like chris faulk, trai turner, hilliarrd, ford, ware, wing, etc aren't getting a 3rd round contract

they don't play valued positions, have maxed out/are injured, and may not get enough PT to even matter (and it makes more sense to just leave instead of transferring)


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