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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 9/30/10 at 1:36 pm to KappaSwig
quote:
So take last year. BReak that down for me. Tech game specifically.
I dont have time to go looking up stats. We know JJ didnt improve from 08 to 09, OR 09 to 10.
we know Lee didnt improve from 08 to 09. we dont know 09 to 10. We hear through miltiple sources he's improved.
Why wouldnt he get a chance? We know if we stick with JJ this is as good as it gets. we wont win the SEC like this. we're 115th out of 120th. We dont have far to fall if we insert Lee and it backfires.
The question is, what do we have to gain?????
we're at the bottom dude. The only way we can go is up.
Give Lee a chance, or take the training wheels off JJ.
This post was edited on 9/30/10 at 1:38 pm
Posted on 9/30/10 at 1:42 pm to just me
quote:
Except that Lee did play worse in 2009.
No. He didn't.
Against LaTech, Lee had more yards (105), more TD's (1), and fewer INT's (0) than Jefferson had against WVU.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 1:43 pm to BobBoucher
quote:
we're at the bottom dude. The only way we can go is up.
Wow, if this is what "the bottom" is like, I'd hate to see if we were 0-4. Maybe we should have hired Houston Nutt when we had the chance we wouldn't be "at the bottom".
Not saying we beat everyone on our schedule or that we shouldn't improve of that Lee doesn't deserve some snaps, BUT Jefferson gives us the best chance to win. We heard time and time and time again how improved Lee was. Yet when he had his shots he failed. AGain, until we actually LOSE a game as teh direct fault of Jefferson, I fail to see the rationale for pulling a second year start to insert someone else.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 1:44 pm to The312
quote:
Against LaTech, Lee had more yards (105), more TD's (1), and fewer INT's (0) than Jefferson had against WVU.
So I hope you were bouncing up and down yellnig "SUPPORT OUR TEAM" at that game. Because you would have been the ONLY such fan.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 1:45 pm to The312
quote:Disturbing, but consistent. Hmmm...
The entire approach to the offense is disturbing. The recalcitrant refusal to adapt is disturbing. The inability to get the ball to our playmakers on the edge is disturbing. Jefferson's utter lack of development is disturbing.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 1:47 pm to Rex
quote:
Miles's comments are disturbing
Fixed
Posted on 9/30/10 at 1:48 pm to KappaSwig
quote:
Not saying we beat everyone on our schedule or that we shouldn't improve of that Lee doesn't deserve some snaps, BUT Jefferson gives us the best chance to win. We heard time and time and time again how improved Lee was. Yet when he had his shots he failed. AGain, until we actually LOSE a game as teh direct fault of Jefferson, I fail to see the rationale for pulling a second year start to insert someone else.
There are several problems with this post:
(1) Your assertion that JJ gives us the best chance to win is completely unfounded. Lee hasn't had an opportunity to play this season. At best, your assertion is based on blind faith in the staff;
(2) When did Lee "fail" when he had his shots? Against LaTech in 2009? Again, he had more yards, more TD's, and fewer INT's than Jefferson had last week. If Lee "failed" against La Tech, then Jefferson "failed" even more miserably against WVU. Moreover, by your own standard - which appears to be winning - Lee succeeded in his last start. At least apply consistent standards to both QB's;
(3) A good coach makes an adjustment BEFORE it costs the team a game. I don't want to needlessly lose a game because the staff was obstinate on the QB issue.
This post was edited on 9/30/10 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 9/30/10 at 1:56 pm to KappaSwig
quote:
we're at the bottom dude. The only way we can go is up.
Wow, if this is what "the bottom" is like, I'd hate to see if we were 0-4.
Perhaps you failed to notice i was referring to our passing game rankings. We are in fact at the bottom.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 1:59 pm to The312
quote:Alabama (2009)quote:No. He didn't.
Except that Lee did play worse in 2009.
Against LaTech, Lee had more yards (105), more TD's (1), and fewer INT's (0) than Jefferson had against WVU.
4/10 (40%) - 44 yards - 0 TDs and 1 Pick
La Tech (2009)
7/22 (32%) - 105 yards - 1 TD and 0 Picks
In both games, Lee threw for 40% or less. Jefferson hit over 45% of his passes against WV.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:02 pm to Rex
quote:
I'm thinking it explains all those passes short of the first down marker: Les has already conceded that he's not going to make it.
He might not have already conceded it, but he's so deathly afraid of letting a QB throw downfield, he's willing to give up the ball to avoid doing it. So, he throws short in hopes that a receiver can break a tackle and get the first, but realizing that he probably won't and we'll have yet another 3-and-out, which is far, far better than risking any of our QBs throwing a pass downfield.
Sad, isn't it?
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:03 pm to just me
quote:
Alabama (2009)
4/10 (40%) - 44 yards - 0 TDs and 1 Pick
yeah, lets see... Lee has seen nothing but mop up duty, maybe 3 or 4 passes all season, then you throw him in against the best defense in college football (happened to win the BCS).
yeah, he gets a bit of a pass for this game.
Now, the Tech game, sure he stunk it up.
How is it fair to yank Lee after 1 poor performance (no pick 6s like in 08), but allow JJ to stay in after multiple poor performances and absolutely NO signs of improvement?
At least Lee wasnt throwing pick 6's which was his big knock in 08, so in his 1 chance, there was marginal improvement. he did take better care of the ball.
This post was edited on 9/30/10 at 2:05 pm
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:04 pm to The312
quote:This is such a huge fail.
(2) When did Lee "fail" when he had his shots? Against LaTech in 2009? Again, he had more yards, more TD's, and fewer INT's than Jefferson had last week. If Lee "failed" against La Tech, then Jefferson "failed" even more miserably against WVU. Moreover, by your own standard - which appears to be winning - Lee succeeded in his last start. At least apply consistent standards to both QB's;
Comparing WV, a BCS team that was ranked and undefeated, against Tech, a WAC team that lost twice as many games as it won.
I mean, your post is a joke, right?
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:06 pm to just me
quote:
Alabama (2009)
4/10 (40%) - 44 yards - 0 TDs and 1 Pick
La Tech (2009)
7/22 (32%) - 105 yards - 1 TD and 0 Picks
In both games, Lee threw for 40% or less. Jefferson hit over 45% of his passes against WV.
These arguments are becoming absurd. First of all, you cannot use the Bama game as a basis for comparison. Having to trot into Bryant Denny in the fourth quarter against the best defense in the nation (and the ultimate NC) on short notice after a week in which you do not get the majority of the snaps with the first team is not a viable basis for meaningful conclusions.
Second, the fixation on completion percentage is hilarious. If I told you before the game that you could have a QB who throws for 105 yards, 1 TD, and 0 INTs or a QB who would throw for 75 yards, 0 TD's, and 2 INTs, only a moron would choose the latter because he had a higher completion percentage on meaningless short throws. Good god. What sort of analysis yields the conclusion that you'll trade 13% increase in completions for fewer yards, fewer TD's, and more INTs.
Again, Jefferson played as poorly as a QB can last week, worse than Lee in 09. WORSE.
This post was edited on 9/30/10 at 2:08 pm
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:08 pm to The312
quote:
Against LaTech, Lee had more yards (105), more TD's (1), and fewer INT's (0) than Jefferson had against WVU.
Wow. 7-22 for 105 yards and 1 whole TD against Louisiana Tech? Okay, NOW I'm convinced that Lee is a passing machine. I'm changing my stripes. We must start Lee NOW!!!
Oh shite. The next game against Ole Miss, Jefferson was 19-37 for 250 yards, 2 TDs and 1 INT. Using my Rantard Elle-esse-BOO calculator, I've quickly deduced that's way worse than 7-22 for 105 yards and 1 whole TD. WTF was Miles thinking keeping Jefferson in the Ole Miss game? We would have beaten Ole Miss if only we'd had Lee's 105 yards for a touchdown. I mean, it's not like our running game could have possibly generated more than 40 yards against Ole Miss' stout defense. But JJ's passing display was awful that day. Clearly, JL would have lead us to victory over Ole Miss.
Start Lee NOW!
This post was edited on 9/30/10 at 2:10 pm
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:10 pm to The312
quote:
(1) At best, your assertion is based on blind faith in the staff;
-No it isn't. It's based on watching Lee throw interception after interception versus Jefferson, who while not "pretty", doesn't do the same. Again, you're asking me to assume that somehow this staff is so self-hating (don't know any other word) that they actually are CHOOSING to go with a player who puts them in position to LOSE rather than putting in someone who, you're asking me to believe based on I don't know what, is somehow, magically, mystically, "the answer".
(2) When did Lee "fail" when he had his shots? Against LaTech in 2009? Again, he had more yards, more TD's, and fewer INT's than Jefferson had last week. If Lee "failed" against La Tech, then Jefferson "failed" even more miserably against WVU. Moreover, by your own standard - which appears to be winning - Lee succeeded in his last start. At least apply consistent standards to both QB's;
-What other "standard" do you suggest - Beauty? Race? Sexual Orientation? Religion? I was in TS for that Tech game; if you can tell me that the "fans" thought Lee was succeeding, you live in neverland. Again, I'm not saying Lee hasn't improved or that he shuoldn't be worked into the game plan. What I'm objecting to is the idea that somehow yanking Jefferson totally in favor of Lee is some kind of magic panacea to our problems.
(3) A good coach makes an adjustment BEFORE it costs the team a game. I don't want to needlessly lose a game because the staff was obstinate on the QB issue.
- I agree; but I also think that there is a difference between an "adjustment" and an "over-reaction". And I think Miles's point is at least half-right: if you had receivers not lining up wrong or not dropping very well-thrown passes, those would be very good "adjustments." Funny, Russell Shepard has dropped at least 3 perfectly thrown passes, one for a first down, one for a touchdown; I don't see any posts about pulling him.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:11 pm to pdxlsufan
quote:
Wow. 7-22 for 105 yards and 1 whole TD against Louisiana Tech? Okay, NOW I'm convinced that Lee is a passing machine. I'm changing my stripes. We must start Lee NOW!!!
Oh shite. The next game against Ole Miss, Jefferson was 19-37 for 250 yards, 2 TDs and 1 INT. That's way worse than 7-22 for 105 yards and 1 whole TD. WTF was Miles thinking keeping Jefferson in the Ole Miss game? We would have beaten Ole Miss if only we'd had Lee's 105 yards for a touchdown. I mean, it's not like our running game could have possibly generated more than 40 yards against Ole Miss' stout defense. But JJ's passing display was awful that day. Clearly, JL would have lead us to victory over Ole Miss.
Start Lee NOW!
Hey, arse-nugget, try to keep up with the debate here. The only argument that is ongoing is whether or not JJ played as poorly as possible last week. Someone suggested that Lee played worse in 2009. I refuted that argument by pointing out that Lee actually had better statistics in hos one 2009 start than JJ had last week.
That's the argument. Very limited in scope. Pay attention. No one needs or wants your extemporaneous non sequitor riff on Ole Miss 2009.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:12 pm to just me
quote:
7/22 (32%) - 105 yards - 1 TD and 0 Picks
In both games, Lee threw for 40% or less. Jefferson hit over 45% of his passes against WV
The fact that he threw for over 25% fewer yards with three more completions might explain the difference in completion percentage. And of course the TD/Int margin of 1/0 compared to 0/2 is pretty significant as well.
Lastly, there is some difference between being the full-time starter and focus of practice reps and game planning for over a year and being a backup that the coaches have completely given up on and being suddenly thrust into the starting role due to injury.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:14 pm to KappaSwig
quote:
stupid penalties & receivers dropping beautifully thrown balls don't help anyone playing QB, Betty White or Drew Brees included
We know the recievers have not helped, and on occasion have dropped a nice pass. But, far more often than not, the ball is nowhere close and the WRs have to make very athletic moves just to get a finger on the ball.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:18 pm to The312
quote:
These arguments are becoming absurd. First of all, you cannot use the Bama game as a basis for comparison. Having to trot into Bryant Denny in the fourth quarter against the best defense in the nation (and the ultimate NC) on short notice after a week in which you do not get the majority of the snaps with the first team is not a viable basis for meaningful conclusions.
Why can't we expect that if he's just as good as you all would have me believe? After all, that's his JOB! To be READY, no matter when, no matter where.
quote:
Second, the fixation on completion percentage is hilarious. If I told you before the game that you could have a QB who throws for 105 yards, 1 TD, and 0 INTs or a QB who would throw for 75 yards, 0 TD's, and 2 INTs, only a moron would choose the latter because he had a higher completion percentage on meaningless short throws. Good god. What sort of analysis yields the conclusion that you'll trade 13% increase in completions for fewer yards, fewer TD's, and more INTs.
I'd rather a higher incompletion rate and a victory than someone throwing the ball to the other team for a touchdown any day. I bet any football coach (yes, even might Lord Saban) would say the same.
quote:
Again, Jefferson played as poorly as a QB can last week, worse than Lee in 09. WORSE.
I don't think anyone is saying they thought Jefferson played flawlessly. I think that my argument is that your proposed medicine might make things worse, based on a record and proven ability in actual games. Now, you all want us to just forget 2 years ago and last year.
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