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re: Miles's comments regarding 3rd and 8 are disturbing
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:19 pm to Nuts4LSU
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:19 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:Except that one game was against a ranked BCS team and one game was against a 3-6 WAC team that was depleted from injuries.
The fact that he threw for over 25% fewer yards with three more completions might explain the difference in completion percentage. And of course the TD/Int margin of 1/0 compared to 0/2 is pretty significant as well.
quote:Who had played the week before and had all of the snaps during the week of practice before the game.
Lastly, there is some difference between being the full-time starter and focus of practice reps and game planning for over a year and being a backup that the coaches have completely given up on and being suddenly thrust into the starting role due to injury.
1
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:19 pm to memphis tiger
quote:
on occasion have dropped a nice pass
Those "occasional" drops have been on crucial plays for 1st downs or TDs.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:21 pm to KappaSwig
quote:
I'd rather a higher incompletion rate and a victory than someone throwing the ball to the other team for a touchdown any day. I bet any football coach (yes, even might Lord Saban) would say the same.
Did you overlook the portion of the game wherein Jefferson threw an INT that led directly to a WVU TD?
This argument stemmed from the statement that "Lee played worse in 2009" than JJ did on Saturday. That's simply not true. Lee performed BETTER in his one 2009 start than JJ performed last week. That's indisputable fact. The rule you enunciated above confirms this, since Lee threw 0 INT's against LaTech while JJ threw 2 against WVU.
This post was edited on 9/30/10 at 2:22 pm
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:21 pm to KappaSwig
Real question is: can lsu keep winning with 115/120th ranked passing?
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:22 pm to BobBoucher
quote:Gasp! You mean we really lost those games?
we're at the bottom dude
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:29 pm to The312
quote:
This argument stemmed from the statement that "Lee played worse in 2009" than JJ did on Saturday. That's simply not true. Lee performed BETTER in his one 2009 start than JJ performed last week. That's indisputable fact. The rule you enunciated above confirms this, since Lee threw 0 INT's against LaTech while JJ threw 2 against WVU.
If you will honestly say you were more comfortable with Lee leading our offense to victory than Jefferson I have some waterfront property in Arizona I'd like to sell you.
Yes, by one measure Lee may have played "better" against the massive, brutal WAC opponent than Jefferson in ONE aspect of the game, but I still don't think that qualifies him to start over Jefferson.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:30 pm to The312
quote:Dude.
This argument stemmed from the statement that "Lee played worse in 2009" than JJ did on Saturday. That's simply not true. Lee performed BETTER in his one 2009 start than JJ performed last week.
Pick an argument and stick with it. Is it 2009 or just Lee's one start in 2009?
BTW - If your only argument is that Lee played better against Tech than Jefferson played against WV, your argument sucks arse.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:36 pm to just me
quote:
Dude.
Pick an argument and stick with it. Is it 2009 or just Lee's one start in 2009?
BTW - If your only argument is that Lee played better against Tech than Jefferson played against WV, your argument sucks arse.
No no no. YOU initiated this argument. YOU specifically stated that Lee played worse in 2009 than JJ played last week. I can link the post for you if you've forgotten it. YOU said that.
There are only two possible bases for YOUR conclusion:
(1) One quarter against Bama in 2009;
(2) Lee's start against La Tech in 2009.
As already noted, the one quarter of play against Bama is not a suitable foundation for any rational conclusions, so basis (1) has been invalidated.
That leaves you only ONE basis for YOUR conclusion: Lee's start against La Tech. And as I have already demonstrated, Lee had better objective statistics against Tech than JJ had against WVU.
Thus, YOUR conclusion, the conclusion that YOU injected into this thread, the conclusion that Lee played worse in 09 than JJ played last week, is...complete bullshite. It's untenable. There is no evidence to support it. In other words, you were wrong.
This post was edited on 9/30/10 at 2:39 pm
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:37 pm to just me
quote:
BTW - If your only argument is that Lee played better against Tech than Jefferson played against WV, your argument sucks arse.
+1
Look, I'm fine with saying JL deserves playing time just to see if he's improved any. Fair enough. He likely will see playing time against McNeese or against Tennessee or Florida if things go south in a hurry.
But using the La Tech game as justification for starting JL? What are you smoking?
Just look at the kind things the Times Pic had to say about JL vs. La Tech after 3 quarters:
quote:
The boos are deafening at Tiger Stadium. Lee's pass on third-and-16 nearly was intercepted, two plays after he was penalized for intentional grounding.
Offensive coordinator Gary Crowton continues to call passing plays despite Lee's obvious struggles and Keiland Williams' success. After three quarters, Lee was 6-of-19 for 100 yards; Williams had 92 yards on 10 carries.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:39 pm to The312
quote:
the one quarter of play against Bama is not a suitable foundation for any rational conclusions, so basis (1) has been invalidated.
No it wasn't. Lee failed in that effort: we were winning until he went in. We were moving the ball with JEfferson in; we imploded when he went out. His ONLY job as the back-up (which he earned in 2008 which we aren't supposed to think about now) is to be ready to go in at any time and and place. NOW we are supposed to spot him that outing because it was in Bryant-Denny (boo hoo hoo).
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:41 pm to KappaSwig
So, if there's no chance Lee is any good why is he still occupying a scholarship position?
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:41 pm to KappaSwig
And can I just say that if Miles REALLY believed Lee was the answer, don't you think it be a heck of a lot easier to just thrown him in and show us? I mean you're asking me to believe that Miles is so dumb/stubborn/idiotic/assinine/self-hating that he refuses to put the best player on the field just to shut up some fans. I mean that assumption is completely irrational. Lee may have earned my respect for sticking around and competing and he should be worked into the games, but he has also earned the distrust some of us still have about his ability to NOT TURN OVER THE FOOTBALL.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:42 pm to Mindenfan
My problem with Miles' comment is that it really doesn't account for poor QB play when that is a definite factor. Yes, penalties have affected our 3rd down situations, but when Miles talks about the whole "other team dropping 8 into coverage and any QB minus Favre would be hard-pressed to succeed" it pisses me off.
If LSU had a threatening passing game, it would be more conducive to LSU converting on 3rd and long. The reason other teams are dropping 8 into coverage on 3rd down is because they know that Jefferson could have all the time in the world back there and still not be able to make the throw. If JJ was a more threatening passer they would want to bring pressure on 3rd and long which opens up passing lanes.
If LSU had a threatening passing game, it would be more conducive to LSU converting on 3rd and long. The reason other teams are dropping 8 into coverage on 3rd down is because they know that Jefferson could have all the time in the world back there and still not be able to make the throw. If JJ was a more threatening passer they would want to bring pressure on 3rd and long which opens up passing lanes.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:42 pm to pdxlsufan
quote:
Lee was 6-of-19 for 100 yards
100 yards after 3 quarters? Ahhhh the glory days.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:42 pm to Rex
quote:
So, if there's no chance Lee is any good why is he still occupying a scholarship position?
Show me where someone said he was no good. I said he wasn't good enough to START. He should, I think, be worked into the game plan, esp when Jefferson is struggling. But he is by no means the white knight savior you're making him out to be.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:47 pm to UGATiger26
quote:
My problem with Miles' comment is that it really doesn't account for poor QB play when that is a definite factor. Yes, penalties have affected our 3rd down situations, but when Miles talks about the whole "other team dropping 8 into coverage and any QB minus Favre would be hard-pressed to succeed" it pisses me off.
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
A confident coach would stress that 3rd and 8 should not be insurmountable and that he expects better both in playcalling and execution.
He's afraid of criticizing his QB to preserve his psyche? How much of his game is being affected by this no-can-do attitude of his head coach?
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:49 pm to PhiAlph279923
quote:
It's really hard to pick up a 3rd and 8 when you run a 6 yard route
Or a touchdown when it's 3rd at the 8 and you run a route to the 6.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:49 pm to KappaSwig
quote:
And can I just say that if Miles REALLY believed Lee was the answer, don't you think it be a heck of a lot easier to just thrown him in and show us? I mean you're asking me to believe that Miles is so dumb/stubborn/idiotic/assinine/self-hating that he refuses to put the best player on the field just to shut up some fans. I mean that assumption is completely irrational. Lee may have earned my respect for sticking around and competing and he should be worked into the games, but he has also earned the distrust some of us still have about his ability to NOT TURN OVER THE FOOTBALL.
As I said earlier, your position amounts to blind faith in the staff.
Moreover, I do not know why you continue to emphasize turnovers as if it is a dispositive factor in JJ's favor. JJ just threw two damn INTs in his latest game, including one on an atrocious read that gave WVU tremendous field position and led directly to a WVU td.
Here is my position, which depends only on empirical evidence and does not require faith in the genius of the coaches:
Jefferson has played very poorly for three consecutive games.
On Saturday, he performed as poorly as a QB possibly can. (This is what led to the very limited argument about whether Lee was worse in 09 than JJ was on Saturday. And he wasn't. JJ's performance on Saturday was worse.)
Given that our starting QB has had three consecutive appaling outings and played as poorly as possible on Saturday, Lee should at least be given an opporunity in the Tennessee game. He should be given a chance to galvanize the team and prove himself with extended play. Given JJ's performance against WVU, we risk very little (if anything) by inserting Lee.
If Lee plays well, then you elevate him to starter. If he doesn't, then JJ remains starter and the fanbase will be relatively united behind him.
This is the only rational way to proceed.
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:50 pm to Rex
quote:
this no-can-do attitude of his head coach?
Oh yes, that is EXACTLY Miles's problem! You nailed it: he doesn't WANT to win!
Posted on 9/30/10 at 2:51 pm to KappaSwig
quote:
But he is by no means the white knight savior you're making him out to be.
I've got news for you: Jefferson is screwing up a whole lot worse than merely "struggling". In light of that I don't know why'd you insist that Jefferson has to take the first snap. Is there some silly technical reason?
Neither I nor anybody else on this board has declared Lee a white knight savior. All we've said is that Jefferson, over the course of four consecutive games (five if you include the bowl game) has demonstrated that HE can't do it and that Lee should be GIVEN A CHANCE.
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