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re: Amazingly, American Football is not in Europe... why?
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:34 am to madddoggydawg
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:34 am to madddoggydawg
quote:
I've tried to watch soccer games.
It's not a sport for everyone. That's fine.
quote:
They kick it back and forth most of time, then if they finally get the ball anywhere near the goal; the crowd gets super-excited as the players get all jammed up and inevitably just kick it into another player.
But the fact that you seem to think this is an accurate description of the tactical elements tells me you don't know the sport very well. None of this amounts to a description of "tactical repetitiveness." This notion that all teams do is 75% in their own half also isn't accurate at all, and isn't a tactical description. This is like saying all football teams do is pass it, run it, drop it, punt it, and then play defense.
1
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:39 am to crazy4lsu
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:41 am to HuckFinn
multiple reasons.
A. Same reason soccer isn’t bigger here. We have a few more established sports that already own a huge chunk of our spare time. So the best athletes we produce tend to choose those sports instead. Same over there except the sports are flipped.
B. it takes a LOT more people. In soccer, how many players (per team) step foot on the field? 15? maybe. Now, how many people (per team) step foot on a football field? 58 players got at least one snap for LSU vs Miss St this season (i randomly grabbed a game to count). NFL rosters are more than double the size of English Premier league rosters.
A. Same reason soccer isn’t bigger here. We have a few more established sports that already own a huge chunk of our spare time. So the best athletes we produce tend to choose those sports instead. Same over there except the sports are flipped.
B. it takes a LOT more people. In soccer, how many players (per team) step foot on the field? 15? maybe. Now, how many people (per team) step foot on a football field? 58 players got at least one snap for LSU vs Miss St this season (i randomly grabbed a game to count). NFL rosters are more than double the size of English Premier league rosters.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:43 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
Yeah I'm extremely skeptical of the argument that it is boorishness alone that keeps people away from the sport
I didn't say that was the only reason, in fact i listed 2 other reasons ahead of it. But yes it is a factor regardless of what you want to believe.
It's no different than here where some say soccer is a commie euro froo froo sport as a reason why they don't like it.
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 10:45 am
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:46 am to crazy4lsu
quote:Are you suggesting this doesn't happen all game?
This notion that all teams do is 75% in their own half also isn't accurate at all, and isn't a tactical description.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:46 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
But yes it is a factor regardless of what you want to believe.
Simply saying "yes it is a factor" doesn't amount to evidence, of which you've provided none.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:47 am to madddoggydawg
quote:
Are you suggesting this doesn't happen all game?
Yes I'm suggesting it doesn't happen to the degree that it is an accurate description of the entire sport. And again, it isn't a description of tactical repetitiveness, as it doesn't describe the tactics at play at all.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:50 am to crazy4lsu
You didn't ask for evidence of the other two reasons, i guess you accept those because they don't interfere with your delicate world view.
Again it's just like here where many say they don't like soccer because it's communist or sissy ball or whatever.
I could post poll evidence of what continental Europeans think of America and Americans but i'm sure you'd find some other reason to dismiss that as well.
Again it's just like here where many say they don't like soccer because it's communist or sissy ball or whatever.
I could post poll evidence of what continental Europeans think of America and Americans but i'm sure you'd find some other reason to dismiss that as well.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:51 am to HuckFinn
The same reason we had to save their asses twice in the world wars, they’re too soft.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:54 am to crazy4lsu
quote:Head-butting the balls that are high and kicking the ones that are low isn't exactly conceptually advanced.
it isn't a description of tactical repetitiveness, as it doesn't describe the tactics at play at all.
Obviously every sport has spatial elements and a variety of approaches, but the simple fact that football calls a choreographed play that is carefully considered by a team of coaches and analysts for months before the game immediately raises its strategy level above games with few breaks like soccer.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:55 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
We have a reputation around the world as being boorish idiots
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:03 am to HuckFinn
There are American football leagues right now (Covid notwithstanding) in both Germany and Italy. They are just small. It simply is what the market demands. When more Europeans want it, it'll be there. For now, it played in front of several hundred people max.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:03 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
You didn't ask for evidence of the other two reasons
The first is a verifiable fact that American football is among the codes that developed from the original football codes. The second may or not be true, and I'm more willing to buy it in terms of explaining games to people not exposed to them. At the same time, the historical reasons I've explained in another post are stronger reasons for me, because they combine the historical and cultural factors relevant to when the sport was spread.
quote:
i guess you accept those because they don't interfere with your delicate world view.
quote:
I could post poll evidence of what continental Europeans think of America and Americans but i'm sure you'd find some other reason to dismiss that as well.
Do you understand what an argument is or how to make one? Suggesting American boorishness is a reason for people to reject one specific American cultural element, in this case football, in the face of accepting nearly every other cultural element that originated in America from the end of WWI to the point that certain parts of American culture have become ubiquitous nearly everywhere, requires far more evidence than you provided. It's a very specific sort of sociological claim, and one, if it were true, would be of academic interest. Why you are reacting like a weirdo to mild skepticism is beyond me.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:07 am to Brazos
Rugby fields the same 15 guys for the duration of the 80 minute game with very few interruptions from the officials. It has much more flow than football and momentum is a vital component of the action. Some rugby players are 6'8 and up to 260 lbs and run almost the entire 40 minute half. I like football but having 53 men playing a game with stops every few seconds, time-outs and the like, sure, you can get bigger "athletes" that are 350lbs plus. But come on, they're going to be puffing on oxygen on the sideline after only a few minutes.
Europeans prefer games that have momentum. Soccer, Rugby and Basketball have that. Football, not so much.
Europeans prefer games that have momentum. Soccer, Rugby and Basketball have that. Football, not so much.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:09 am to madddoggydawg
quote:
Head-butting the balls that are high and kicking the ones that are low isn't exactly conceptually advanced.
Neither is throwing a ball or catching it or running with it. I'm asking for a description that reflects reality, not one so generalized it can mean absolutely nothing.
quote:
the simple fact that football calls a choreographed play that is carefully considered by a team of coaches and analysts for months before the game immediately raises its strategy level above games with few breaks like soccer.
You know that there is a ton of the same sorts of choreography in soccer? There aren't specific plays like in football, but there are absolutely things that are analogous, which in soccer would be referred to as "patterns of play." Movement, spacing, and defensive shapes are all choreographed too, among other elements. The sports are different, with different levels of complexity, and insisting one is more "simple" than the other is nonsensical.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:13 am to crazy4lsu
quote:So we agree football is more cerebral.
There aren't specific plays like in football
quote:It seems to me you are extending the meaning of that word.
Movement, spacing, and defensive shapes are all choreographed too
Bickering aside, you obviously like soccer and I don't. Oh well.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:13 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
in the face of accepting nearly every other cultural element that originated in America from the end of WWI to the point that certain parts of American culture have become ubiquitous nearly everywhere
Outside of the entertainment industry i don't think this is true at all. They have certain American things which are viewed as a novelty (McDonalds), but that's about where it ends.
Have you ever been outside the United States???
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:21 am to kingbob
quote:
Don’t forget that it takes a lot of expensive equipment to play.
This. Soccer dominated because any group of kids with a big ball of anything can get a pickup game going with a handful of kids. Basketball requires very little as well and very few people, so it’s globally popular.
Football is expensive, requires the most people, and the rules are complex.
It’s a sport that only works with good infrastructure in place.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:24 am to HuckFinn
Because football is a violent game invented by a rugged pioneering people. Nations with mostly effete men would never adopt that sport. Our own nation is in the slow process of rejecting tackle football. In 50 years there almost certainly will be no such game.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:29 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Outside of the entertainment industry i don't think this is true at all.
It depends on what you think of as culture. Even though there are certain elements that are novelties, like McDonald's, there are other elements that are clearly lasting. One example is KFC in Japan, where it has developed its own customs. China is another huge market for KFC.
Entertainment is a massive industry as well. And you're ignoring the form of the media itself, which is uniquely American. Radio, television and film as mediums were developed primarily by Americans. Fashion is also a major element, as Japanese designers in the 60's and 70's became obsessed with two American aesthetics, the old west and the Ivy League. The Japanese kept the selvedge denim weaving-techniques alive, which eventually returned to America, but this isn't even mentioning how ubiqutiuous blue jeans are around the world. This Japanese photographer took pictures of Ivy League students and their fashion, and collected it all in a book called Take Ivy, which spread Ivy League sensibilities everywhere. I have a ton more examples, but these are a few off the top of my head.
This isn't even mentioning the computer, phone, and internet, where the lingua franca is by default English, due to American companies, mainly. I'd argue the fact that American cultural imports seem invisible is a testament to how much they've been subsumed.
quote:
Have you ever been outside the United States???
Yes. All over Europe, MENA, and India. A SA trip planned before this virus too.
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 11:31 am
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