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Posted on 5/5/20 at 9:39 am to DByrd2
quote:
Soccer is orders of magnitude more tactically complex than football is.
You support your argument well, but this is false. Soccer may be a more beautiful game in its constant flow of motion, but it is not more tactically complex.
Soccer is tactically repetitive, and your argument that soccer only has a playbook on free kicks works against, not for, your argument. Football playbooks can be as thick as bibles, and when the game is on, every single page is in play, on offense and defense. That leads to hundreds of thousands of possible combinations in any given game. And if you are the coach or the player who cannot or will not adjust to those possibilities, you will look like a fool.
The argument that soccer is “cerebral” than football is usually put forth by people who feel some sort of inferiority complex regarding the relationship of soccer to football. To them, I say let it go. There’s plenty of room to love both sports, without making negative comparisons of one over the other.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 9:41 am to NOSTRODAMUS
The atlhletes are superior in the NFL and the contact is way more extreme with pads. If these pro rugby players were equal or better they would be in the NFL .
Posted on 5/5/20 at 9:42 am to NOSTRODAMUS
Rugby doesn’t have the same impacts as American football does.
Only when they’re running free from a pass down the field do they ever gain enough momentum to generate a hit like one you’d take in American football and if you’re running free like that, chances are you’ve broken through the defense and no ones in front of you.
Scrums aren’t even comparable to OL/DL engagements. Football is just overall a much more violent sport. Rugby is just as as stop/start or even more so to a degree.
Only when they’re running free from a pass down the field do they ever gain enough momentum to generate a hit like one you’d take in American football and if you’re running free like that, chances are you’ve broken through the defense and no ones in front of you.
Scrums aren’t even comparable to OL/DL engagements. Football is just overall a much more violent sport. Rugby is just as as stop/start or even more so to a degree.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 9:52 am to SpqrTiger
quote:
Soccer is tactically repetitive
Can you describe how it is repetitive? Use tactical terminology specific to soccer if you could.
quote:
Football playbooks can be as thick as bibles, and when the game is on, every single page is in play, on offense and defense.
Soccer and American Football have different sorts of complexity, because the rules of the game value different things. They are actually quite similar on a conceptual level. The same things that matter in American Football, like field position and turnovers, matter in soccer. The playing styles are the better comparison to playbooks than simply set plays. For example, teams that value possession will play shorter passes focused on horizontal movements, not unlike the West Coast. There are teams that value the long ball, just like there are teams that value the deep vertical passing.
Soccer has a degree of complexity that is different from American football, because in soccer you can move the ball in any direction, either by carrying it (as in dribbling with the ball) or passing it. It's fluidity makes it extremely difficult to draw up plays, but particular movements between players are practiced the same way a team would drill a play. You have the same thousand possible combinations from each opportunity with the ball, and you actually have similar phases of the game, where soccer has fluid transition phases, whereas American football doesn't. But the offensive and defensive phases aren't all that dissimilar. You have zonal marking, you have varieties of press, you have a spare man in certain areas of the field to prevent opportunities.
Both are based on the original football codes, and thus share a degree of similarity that people don't realize.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 9:57 am to HuckFinn
Europeans will never invest in the infrastructure necessary to sustain American football. Why would they? It isn’t lack of stadiums, which they have plenty of, but it is the lack of pewee to high school to university teams they will never develop. They have soccer and rugby already. But universities don’t have athletic teams of any kind. American football is way more expensive to have a team. Soccer, rugby, and basketball are much less expensive. Even baseball is not popular in Europe. There are no coaches at any level of American football in Europe. There is no particular demand to develop American football from the ground up. They may watch American teams, but if people don’t grow up with the sport as a part of their youth, there will never be the kind of support for that sport necessary to sustain it other than as something of a novelty.
Soccer is growing in the US, largely because of accessibility for kids, boy and girls, in a way that football isn’t. More kids can participate in soccer than football, for a variety of reasons, including cost, less emphasis on physical size, and strength. Of concern also is the trend on some schools to deemphasize football because of concussions, etc., even though concussions are common in soccer also.
Soccer is growing in the US, largely because of accessibility for kids, boy and girls, in a way that football isn’t. More kids can participate in soccer than football, for a variety of reasons, including cost, less emphasis on physical size, and strength. Of concern also is the trend on some schools to deemphasize football because of concussions, etc., even though concussions are common in soccer also.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:00 am to Gray Tiger
quote:
The third sounds like some SJW crapola.
You can call it whatever you want, but that's how a lot of people feel about Americans over there. That's just a fact.
quote:
If boorishness and bad behavior was a detriment, the hooliganism of soccer, especially British soccer would have doomed it.
Hooliganism didn't get going until well after soccer had been established around Europe and around the world. And yes the British have a horrible reputation around Europe.
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 10:03 am
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:03 am to Nephropidae
quote:
what? don’t tackle the other team, don’t touch the ball with your hand, stay in bounds, and go kick it in the goal. How is this more complicated?
Well it is complicated in a different way than American football. Professional teams need to have a seamless philosophy that encompasses both offense and defense. Thus what is important in the game is the spacing between players. You can have a team that has a narrow defensive line, in a spacing pattern called the "Low Block", where the spacing between the defensive line and the offensive line is less than 25 yards. In a low block system, you can have a variety of pressing patterns. You can have one where the front players press the CB's on the ball to force them to move it quickly to the wings, where the wide player and the fullback, along with a spare midfielder on that side of the field, can develop a numerical advantage against the opposition's wide players (the fullback and winger), and win the ball back, with the expectation that the front players will run into space to start a counter-attack. You can have a low block with wider spacing where the defensive midfielder is expected to fill in as cover for gaps in the defensive line, with the other side of the field remaining narrow. You can have a low block with a midfield press, where the focus is on denying passing lanes to the opposition and forcing a mistake through passing.
This is just a short description of the varieties of ways teams can employ a defensive strategy. A full description of the tactical elements would fill a book. The complexity in soccer is different than American football. Suggesting one is more complex than the other is to ignore the context of each sport.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:05 am to kingbob
This is the main reason imo. Very expensive to field a team and you need financial support with a good fanbase. Most foreign countries have neither.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:06 am to crazy4lsu
quote:It's already been said but 75% of the game is kicking it back and forth on their own side of the field.
Can you describe how it is repetitive?
Have you ever seen a kids' soccer game? It's literally a bunch of children in a circle swinging their legs over and over until the ball gets kicked out of the circle and all the kids run after it and form another circle. In the earliest stages of football kids are running choreographed plays based on complex terminology.
I could see if you wanted to make this argument about basketball but it's laughable to say there is a sport with more strategy than football.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:08 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
We have a reputation around the world as being boorish idiots, this doesn't make people want to go out of their way to learn our culture. England is the one exception to this (as they are boorish idiots as well)
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:08 am to Draconian Sanctions
(no message)
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 10:42 am
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:09 am to HuckFinn
Australian Football is actually pretty cool.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:11 am to BlackCoffeeKid
I was a Scottish Claymores fan growing up. Actually went to a few of their games. Saw them play the Frankfurt Galaxy and I think the Rhein Fire?
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:11 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
#3 It's American. We have a reputation around the world as being boorish idiots, this doesn't make people want to go out of their way to learn our culture. England is the one exception to this (as they are boorish idiots as well), and not surprisingly American Football is most popular there of all places outside of North America. Even there a lot of people complain that it's too complicated, too much stop start, and don't see why the players need "all that armor"
I don't think this is a reason, honestly. Firstly, soccer spread through interaction with sailors, expats, and students. Countries where the British had a settler presence generally play cricket or rugby preferentially, as those were regarded as upper-class sports while soccer was working-class. The clubs that were established in each country were mostly specific to neighborhoods, and thus neighborhood identity became closely linked to club identity. The growth of the sport was organic.
American culture has spread in an entirely different way, not through direct imperialism or trade interaction, but through mass media. The dominant artistic forms currently are American, and have been American for a long time. Jazz is probably the earliest example, but 12-bar blues was extremely influential in rock'n'roll, and serves as a good example of an American cultural export. Fashion too, as the blue jean is nearly ubiquitous. The major cultural export of the US now is Hip-Hop, which has found its way into pretty much every country in the world. If boorishness was a good enough reason for people to not interact with American football, why wasn't it a good enough reason for them to take other cultural elements, from architecture to the plastic arts to music to fashion to literature to film (which again has been influenced by Americans far more than any other group)?
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:14 am to DByrd2
quote:I actually read your post and I can't see your logic at all. Your reasons seem to be:
Soccer is orders of magnitude more tactically complex than football is.
The games are longer.
There are 11 players.
The field is larger.
Crowds make noise during the game.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:16 am to madddoggydawg
quote:
It's already been said but 75% of the game is kicking it back and forth on their own side of the field.
That's a terrible description of what the sport is, and not accurate at all. I asked you to use soccer specific terminology as well, which leads me to suspect that you don't know what the terminology is.
quote:
Have you ever seen a kids' soccer game? It's literally a bunch of children in a circle swinging their legs over and over until the ball gets kicked out of the circle
Not in places where soccer is important. Most professional training begins at very young ages. If you're experience is with only Americans, then yes, because the American organization of the sport is singular and frankly idiotic. Here is a relevant example of an academy team that is clearly not "swinging their legs over and over." LINK
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:16 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
If boorishness was a good enough reason for people to not interact with American football, why wasn't it a good enough reason for them to take other cultural elements, from architecture to the plastic arts to music to fashion to literature to film (which again has been influenced by Americans far more than any other group)?
Because Americans involved in the arts aren't looked at in the same way.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:21 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Because Americans involved in the arts aren't looked at in the same way.
Yeah I'm extremely skeptical of the argument that it is boorishness alone that keeps people away from the sport. I've had friends who played for club American football teams in Europe when they studied abroad, and interaction about American football has been positive with Europeans in my personal experience.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:28 am to crazy4lsu
quote:I've tried to watch soccer games. They kick it back and forth most of time, then if they finally get the ball anywhere near the goal; the crowd gets super-excited as the players get all jammed up and inevitably just kick it into another player. Corner kicks for a miss or breakaways for a miss or low-rate shots for a miss are not my thing.
That's a terrible description of what the sport is, and not accurate at all. I asked you to use soccer specific terminology as well, which leads me to suspect that you don't know what the terminology is.
I enjoyed watching the Timbers in-person but really their loyal fanbase hardly watched the game and just got drunk and did chants.
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