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Posted on 1/9/12 at 10:42 am to RollTigers
quote:
Check every ranking service. Alabama is a superior undergraduate school
What exactly does that mean? do they teach a harder version of stuff?
Posted on 1/9/12 at 1:07 pm to RollTigers
quote:
Why is it hard to acknowledge that bama is a generally better academic school?
Because it is not.
There are lots of ways to compare schools, and any particular parameter may be important for one person but not another.
It's been a while since I've looked at this data (so my figures will be about 8 years old), but the numbers are probably similar now.
Consider, number of National Merit Scholars: more at LSU-BR>UA-Tuscaloosa
Total research expenditures: more at LSU-BR (by far!); however, UAB ranks above LSU-BR in this category.
Faculty in the National Academy of Sciences: LSU>Alabama-T (by a hair), but UAB more than both.
Etc., etc, but you get the idea.
The point is that both schools can offer a fine education. So making a declarative like, "Bama is better academically" is absurd.
Posted on 1/9/12 at 3:11 pm to taf
The most recent figures I could find (2009) have Alabama's enrollment of merit scholars about 2&1/2 times larger than LSU's (83 to 32).
Research expenditures are higher at schools that have a strong focus on engineering. They don't indicate academic excellence. Neither does the national academy of sciences.
By the arguments that many of you are offering in this thread ("Both schools can offer a fine education," "Do they teach a harder version of stuff") it sounds like all of you are rejecting the idea that a school can be better than another school academically. That's fine, I guess, but it's not something almost anyone I've ever met would agree to. Most would say a Harvard education is better than a Baton Rouge Community College degree. I would agree with them. And if you acknowledge a difference there then it simply becomes a matter of degree - if there's a difference between them, is there one between Vanderbilt, say, and Southern Miss? At what point do you stop acknowledging a difference and deny that one school is better than another? My guess is that this frustration with the idea wouldn't exist if the school in question wasn't LSU. Hell, it might not even exist if the school to which being compared isn't Alabama - Would you not agree Vanderbilt is better than LSU academically? What about Florida? Virtually any outside observer would say that they are more prestigious academic schools than LSU. Why does it matter? These kids don't pick for academic reasons 9/10 times.
Research expenditures are higher at schools that have a strong focus on engineering. They don't indicate academic excellence. Neither does the national academy of sciences.
By the arguments that many of you are offering in this thread ("Both schools can offer a fine education," "Do they teach a harder version of stuff") it sounds like all of you are rejecting the idea that a school can be better than another school academically. That's fine, I guess, but it's not something almost anyone I've ever met would agree to. Most would say a Harvard education is better than a Baton Rouge Community College degree. I would agree with them. And if you acknowledge a difference there then it simply becomes a matter of degree - if there's a difference between them, is there one between Vanderbilt, say, and Southern Miss? At what point do you stop acknowledging a difference and deny that one school is better than another? My guess is that this frustration with the idea wouldn't exist if the school in question wasn't LSU. Hell, it might not even exist if the school to which being compared isn't Alabama - Would you not agree Vanderbilt is better than LSU academically? What about Florida? Virtually any outside observer would say that they are more prestigious academic schools than LSU. Why does it matter? These kids don't pick for academic reasons 9/10 times.
Posted on 1/9/12 at 4:17 pm to RollTigers
Gump Alter
Insinuating the GF is not the reason and it because bammer is better academically.
Go back to tidefans
Insinuating the GF is not the reason and it because bammer is better academically.
Go back to tidefans
Posted on 1/9/12 at 4:17 pm to RollTigers
quote:
They don't indicate academic excellence. Neither does the national academy of sciences.
I'm sorry, but you are simply wrong on this.
It is true that there is no one way to evaluate schools. Different measures may mean different things to different students/applicants or evaluators.
However, the total research dollar figure, while not a perfect measure, is indicative of the quality of the academic pursuits at a given school, as determined by peers (remember research grants are typically peer reviewed). It is perhaps one of the most common ways of comparing two schools.
Having faculty who are members of the National Academy of Sciences is indicative of the strength of the faculty (in the sciences, obviously). Again, not a perfect measure by any stretch, but it may be relevant for those interested in sciences. Bama and LSU not so different in this measure (more at UAB, for example).
As I mentioned, the National Merit numbers in my post were about 7 years old, so I won't dispute your claim. But the larger point is that, if you are correct about 2009, then this measure is obviously fluid (LSU greater in 2004; Alabama maybe greater in 2009). So it's not exactly good evidence that either school is "better" than the other.
We can also look at class profiles for ACT, etc. I can quote the data, if you like, but the bottom line, is that they are very similar.
You are the one making the claim. You are saying that Bama is academically superior to LSU. Thus, the burden of proof lies with you.
I have no particular axe to grind with regard to the quality of LSU's academics, as I am not an alumnus of LSU. But I have known many students who were educated there, and I am an academic who spends quite a bit of my time evaluating graduates of various institutions.
Posted on 1/9/12 at 4:32 pm to taf
Fair enough. I think that where I disagree with you in general is on how much science spending and recognition reflects on the school in general - it just reflects on one portion of the larger whole that is the university. My problem is that I don't know where to find out how many people there are in any particular major at either of the schools, but both of my parents have always told me that when they were at LSU a great amount of the academic focus was on the sciences. A place like Alabama, that I don't think is science-oriented, is likely to spend less and have less recognition for its scientific programs.
Most of my perception of the two schools comes from my college and graduate school applications. I never applied to either one because I was offered a full scholarship elsewhere, but I definitely read the ranking sites, and all of the rankings I read (Princeton Review, U.S. News and World Report, etc) have Alabama significantly higher in the appropriate ranking than LSU. Maybe those numbers are skewed by graduate school ratings - I just don't know. All I know is that every year that I've looked (my mother is a professor so she has access to the info and I think it's interesting) Alabama has been much higher. It seems to me like a general consensus amongst people whose job it is to rate universities that Alabama should be rated higher than LSU. I trust them more than I trust people on message boards who have a strong emotional reason to deny anything that would conflict with their views of their alma mater. That isn't you, but you see where I'm coming from.
Other guy, I'm not an Alabama fan. I get that you're trying to piss me off by saying it, and it's working, so congratulations. Both my parents went to LSU and have doctorates from there. I was born and raised on LSU. I have a four foot tall stuffed tiger from the 60's that is falling apart and I'm having restored this summer. Relax - not everyone is incapable of having a rational discussion of their favorite school.
Most of my perception of the two schools comes from my college and graduate school applications. I never applied to either one because I was offered a full scholarship elsewhere, but I definitely read the ranking sites, and all of the rankings I read (Princeton Review, U.S. News and World Report, etc) have Alabama significantly higher in the appropriate ranking than LSU. Maybe those numbers are skewed by graduate school ratings - I just don't know. All I know is that every year that I've looked (my mother is a professor so she has access to the info and I think it's interesting) Alabama has been much higher. It seems to me like a general consensus amongst people whose job it is to rate universities that Alabama should be rated higher than LSU. I trust them more than I trust people on message boards who have a strong emotional reason to deny anything that would conflict with their views of their alma mater. That isn't you, but you see where I'm coming from.
Other guy, I'm not an Alabama fan. I get that you're trying to piss me off by saying it, and it's working, so congratulations. Both my parents went to LSU and have doctorates from there. I was born and raised on LSU. I have a four foot tall stuffed tiger from the 60's that is falling apart and I'm having restored this summer. Relax - not everyone is incapable of having a rational discussion of their favorite school.
This post was edited on 1/9/12 at 4:34 pm
Posted on 1/9/12 at 4:34 pm to RollTigers
Can we please let this abortion of a thread die?
Posted on 1/9/12 at 4:36 pm to Roaad
quote:
Can we please let this abortion of a thread die?
Posted on 1/9/12 at 4:45 pm to RollTigers
quote:
RollTigers
link or GTFO
Posted on 1/9/12 at 4:57 pm to RollTigers
quote:
I think that where I disagree with you in general is on how much science spending and recognition reflects on the school in general
The research rankings I was quoting are total research expenditures, not just science.
But it's all good.
And I would agree that research is only one (albeit imperfect) way of comparing schools, but it is very commonly done.
My summary point is simply that a high quality education can be achieved at essentially all tier 1 state schools. Saying that one school is "superior" to another usually amounts to comparing the kinds of measures I've mentioned above: total research dollars, faculty strength (publications/reputation, etc.), student data (test scores, honors, etc), and overall reputation (which is generally a reflection of the other parameters). And the data in these categories are quite similar for LSU and Bama.
Part of my job involves evaluating the academic experience of graduates from schools across the country. A graduate from Alabama gets the same look as a graduate from LSU. A Bama degree is not held in higher regard.
But I am just a guy on a message board, so you can choose to believe that or not.
Hope you enjoy the game tonight and
Posted on 1/9/12 at 5:19 pm to taf
taf, my thoughts are you shared your post to show off your intellect. But football and football recruiting isn't rocket science. Your not the smartest person on this board. 
Posted on 1/9/12 at 5:31 pm to taf
Have a good night
Posted on 1/9/12 at 6:21 pm to eman65
quote:
my thoughts are you shared your post to show off your intellect.
Well, you'd be wrong. I never claimed that I was smart or anything else. This is an anonymous message board. No one knows who I am or anyone else for that matter.
I answered this post because someone claimed that LSU was academically inferior to Bama. Did you read this thread? I don't claim anything other than this assertion is false. Sorry if that offends you.
Posted on 1/10/12 at 12:26 am to taf
I hope he stays with Bama...we all make decisions in our life that we feel is best for our future...I hope it works out for him, I don't wish anyone harm...I would just have a hard time cheering for him...hope he is successful against every team other then LSU
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